According to Catholic or Anglican belief, do Homosexuals go to hell?
It's a bit of a pointless question, because you assume a literal interpretation.
May 20 is ‘Everybody Draw Mohammed Day’
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According to Catholic or Anglican belief, do Homosexuals go to hell?
It's a bit of a pointless question, because you assume a literal interpretation.
Indeed it isn't but at least the various political ideologies that espouse the sort of discrimination that Islam has at it's heart are roundly condemed in the UK at the very least. If I started a political party with the same sorts of views that Islam holds as central but without the God bit it would be widely condemed and rightly so.
Not to anywhere near the same extent though. And while it is not exclusive to Islam it is widely supported by Islam.
Sorry, don't understand your comment. If we take Anglican beliefs, homosexuality used to be condemned, where as now, it's not...
So, if we look agross Islamic cultures, where are their general take on homosexuals, and their place in heaven?
Like Catholicism, Sikism, Christian democratic movements espcially in the United States. This isn't about Islam, it's about interpreting a religion to advocate an ideology not the other way around.
The kind people who hold these discrimatory ideologies used whatever it needs to justify their ends, Islam just happens to be the weapon of choice at the moment.
Tell that to the Christian Right in the US, or any of the Christian and Secular countries in Africa and Asia. It's just easier to target Islam.
What if we take Catholic belief instead. You are attempting to take a literal interpretation and apply it to all Muslims.
It's ok to take an allegorical view of the Bible, but not the Qur'an?
All other points aside, the answer to this is, in short, yes. The Koran itself proports to be the literal word of God in a way that the Bible does not.
Your entire argument here seems to be "Others do it too." Of course they do, but I would say that many years of more liberal thought and behavour have reduced the impact of most of them on our society. Sure there is objection to homosexuality in the UK but there is not legal sanction against it anymore and in fact quite a bit of legal protection. I would also say that Islam is somewhat different from the above as the origins of Islam and its development as a control system and ideology run parrallel to it's growth as a religion. Christianity started as a religion and was lated coopted into an ideology, Islam started as an ideology that had a religion tagged on to it.
All of which are also a problem, but none of which are a major problem in the UK. Once again though your best defense of the discrimination at the core of Islam seems to be "others do it too". Which I feel is a sad reflection on the ideology and your defense of it.
I really hope you are joking.
Still baffled by your response
As regards the Catholic belief, while not as forward as Anglican, same sex relationships are generally accepted, although 'the act' is still deemed sinful. In short though, I don't believe either of the religions you've mentioned (in this day and age) suggest homosexuality = hell.
So I'm wondering what the general Islamic view on homosexuality is?
Caporegime
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Conversions 10 Secrets The Muslims Don't Want You To Know
This was written by a Sikh brother.
1. Islam is a totally MISSIONARY religion committed to making EVERYONE Muslim, according to the Koran the world is divided up into 2 parts, Dar-as-Islam (House of Faith) a title which applies to all Islamic countries and Dar-al-Harb (Household of War), land not yet surrendered to Allah, which is the rest of the world. It is the duty of every Muslim to wage Jihad (Holy War) against Kafirs, infidels and unbelievers what the Koran calls non-Muslims and make them submit to Islam. Violence against Kafirs is encouraged in the Koran, if gentle persuasion doesn?t work.
2. Conversions of Sikh and Hindu men and women is becoming an increasing problem, hundreds of reported and verified conversions in the last few years. Dozens of cases were reported in October 1995 alone, when the new academic year tarted also converted. Universities in London, Bradford and Luton are particular problem areas.
3. At the Hizb-ut-Tahrir ( HUT ) conference at the Wembley arena in August 1994, a Sikh was converted on stage in front of 8000 cheering and clapping Muslims. The Sikh girl then proceeded to attack Sikhism making particularly offensive statements against the Sikh Gurus. The audience laughed and continued to cheer. Some of this speech was televised on satellite T.V and on the HUTs pirate radio station. Muslim leaders at the conference called for an intensification of the campaign to bring Sikh and Hindu women to Islam. The same thing happened at HUTs Rally for Islam conference in Trafalgar Square, August 1995. This time 2 Hindu women were converted on stage in front of 2000 cheering Muslims. Again Muslim leaders demanded that Muslims boys try harder to convert Sikh and Hindu girls.
4. The self appointed Muslim parliament of Britain passed a resolution demanding that the British government make it illegal for Muslim women to marry non-Muslim. It also called for the banning of conversions of Muslims to other faiths. Any Muslim who did convert was to be stoned to death according Islamic tradition. Thankfully, the British government did not take their demand seriously, but the event showed the Muslims double standards and hypocrisy.
5. HUT leaders issued a directive in January 1995 to specially selected male members telling them to place Ads in personal columns of national newspapers inviting relationships from Asian women, they were told to write the religion and nationality of the girl were unimportant and be ambiguous about their own backgrounds by for example only describing themselves as Asian. They were further told to form intimate relationships with only Sikh and Hindu girls who replied with the aim of conversion. The expense of the Ads and any dates were to be paid by the HUT.
6. Certain Muslims have taken to wearing Karas (Sikh steel bracelet) at Bhangra gigs with the aim of specifically seeking to meet Hindu and Sikh girls. When meeting the Girls, these people identify themselves in such a way that the girl does not realise that they are Muslim, for example by shortening the name Mohammed to Mohan. They form relationships with the girl and begin the slow path to conversion.
7. A Muslim converting somebody, will never tell the person the whole story. For example when converting men they always leave out the part about having to be circumcised to become Muslim. After all what man would want half of his genitals cut off. Likewise girl converts are tricked into believing that men and women are equal to Islam. They are not told that rape victims according to the Koran have produce 4 Male witnesses of good character to say that they were raped or they will be charged with adultery and stoned according to Islamic tradition ( hundreds of cases where this has occurred are on file with Amnesty International, contact them for further information). Also according to the Koran, all man has to do to divorce his wife is say Talaq 3 times. For women of course getting a divorce is much harder. Besides which what woman wants to share her husband with three other women.
The new method that they are employing is to change their names by deed poll to Mohan singh and Balraj singh , they add surnames on to Gill and Hayer are two of there favorites. Please check the person you are going to marry and there credentials through your parents or close relatives NAMES MEAN NOTHING THERE ARE BEING CHANGED BY DEED POLL IT ONLY COSTS THEM A COUPLE OF HUNDRED POUNDS , SUPPLIED BY THEY'RE FANATICAL ELDERS!!!!
8. HUT leadership has instructed its members to specifically target problem groups of conversion. These include young teenage girls, people with social problems, the recently bereaved and victims of abuse as children. These people are considered to be weak willed and easily manipulated once identified the Muslim will try to convince their target that Islam will magically solve all their problems. Incidentally in 1992 the hut produced an article telling Muslim men to particularly target non-Muslim girls with plain or unattractive physical, facial or body features. These girls the article said would not be accustomed to this attention and would do anything to maintain a relationship. It went on to say that the discomfort you may feel in such relationships, especially if intimate is only temporary however the rewards you will receive in Heaven will last for eternity.
9. The HUT has instructed Muslims to work in groups when converting, with one person forming a very close friendship with their target. The group then works to find out the strengths and weaknesses of the person involved and then will work accordingly. If for example, the person loves sport and is very athletic, they go on about how Islam actively encourages sport and how all the world's best sportsmen such as Muhammad Ali, Tyson and Imran Khan are Muslims. If the person has a strongly anti-white attitude, then they will stir up racial hatred against whites even more by talking about past white injustices against them. This policy has been used effectively with Afro-Caribbean's, with whom they talk about the slave trade and give Malcolm X as role model (Muslim groups leafleted black cinema audiences watching Malcolm X when it was released ). Similarly, the hard up have been offered well-paid jobs with Muslim businesses providing they convert.
10. Forced conversions do occur. There have been many documented cases ( at least one in Southall ) when Sikh and Hindu girls have been taken to Pakistan by their Muslim boyfriends and forcibly converted. Those resisting are passed on to other Muslim men who keep the girl under lock and key, in some remote village without telephones. All the girls money and her passport are taken away. Other cases have occurred when Sikh and Hindu girls are photographed naked by their Muslim boyfriends, and are told to convert or else the photos will be published in magazines and sent to the girls family and friends. These are not tragically scare stories but facts.
CONVERSIONS INTO ISLAM almost always occur out of a persons IGNORANCE or MISUNDERSTANDING of their own religion. Take time to understand your religion and educate others. The process of conversion is usually very SUBTLE and GRADUAL. It always occurs progressively UNDERMINING YOUR CULTURE and RELIGION through misquoting religious texts and falsifying historical events. Be on guard and stop them from speaking lies about your religion be you Sikh or Hindu. The HUT and other Muslim groups have said that they aim to make FRANCE, an ISLAMIC REPUBLIC by the year 2015 and Britain by 2025 through CONVERSIONS, IMMIGRATION and high MUSLIM BIRTH RATES. THE DIFFERENT WAYS THE HUT ARE ATTACKING US
Fanatics are now vandalising books on Sikhism and religious texts such as the Guru Granth Sahib in Council, School, and college libraries. About 30% of the time this vandalism involves the writing of false propaganda and messages to the readers of the book. These messages usually attempts to UNDERMINE your faith by MISQUOTING religious texts and distorting reality. Check your local library especially if you live in an area with a history of trouble.
Recent events have shown that groups have become increasingly envious of our prosperity in this country. They are now systematically trying their best to damage us financially. In some Mosques speakers have told worshippers to boycott Sikh and Hindu shops. However, the most obvious example of this economic sabotage would be that of the Bradford riots. These were not as the media have us believe merely a case of Asian youths uprising and fighting white fascist police brutality, but more a situation where gangs went on rampage, burning and looting non-Muslim property. The Economist Magazine ( June 17th 1995 edition ) reported that No Hindu nor Sikh youths took part, only Muslim males. Indian owned business were attacked. In fact other reports state that older, masked Muslims ( thought to be HUT ) went down the streets ahead of everyone else, and specifically marked out Sikh and Hindu shops with spray paint, for destruction by rioters following them. Don't be fooled by the Muslim media, Sikhs and Hindus were the victims of the Muslim riots in Bradford.
The HUT produced and circulated articles in universities, stating that Jewish, Sikh and Hindu students were dogs and must be removed from higher education. (As reported in the Guardian, 31st October 1995 edition). The Muslims have realised that the power, respect, money and knowledge and influence brings makes us more powerful enemies. The exact strategy for preventing us from obtaining higher education has not yet been leaked, but the harassment and bullying Hindu and Sikh students at schools and colleges ( by such acts as the storming of West Thames college in Jan 1995 ) is bound to be a part of it. After all how can anyone work in places of such stress. Our youths must strive to get highly educated as they possibly can. University students should act as role models and encourage younger members of the community to get an education. This will greatly benefit not only you and your family, but help your community.
Youths have been instructed to infiltrate any and every organisation and position of authority they can. They have also been told to keep their Islamic fundamentalist secret and subtly remove our community from a position within these organisations. For example, they have been directed to join Student Union bodies, the Media, anti-racist groups community groups, councils and political parties.
Check out this ::::::http://www.ca-c.org/dataeng/10.babadzh.shtml
This was written by a Sikh brother.
1. Islam is a totally MISSIONARY religion committed to making EVERYONE Muslim, according to the Koran the world is divided up into 2 parts, Dar-as-Islam (House of Faith) a title which applies to all Islamic countries and Dar-al-Harb (Household of War), land not yet surrendered to Allah, which is the rest of the world. It is the duty of every Muslim to wage Jihad (Holy War) against Kafirs, infidels and unbelievers what the Koran calls non-Muslims and make them submit to Islam. Violence against Kafirs is encouraged in the Koran, if gentle persuasion doesn?t work.
2. Conversions of Sikh and Hindu men and women is becoming an increasing problem, hundreds of reported and verified conversions in the last few years. Dozens of cases were reported in October 1995 alone, when the new academic year tarted also converted. Universities in London, Bradford and Luton are particular problem areas.
3. At the Hizb-ut-Tahrir ( HUT ) conference at the Wembley arena in August 1994, a Sikh was converted on stage in front of 8000 cheering and clapping Muslims. The Sikh girl then proceeded to attack Sikhism making particularly offensive statements against the Sikh Gurus. The audience laughed and continued to cheer. Some of this speech was televised on satellite T.V and on the HUTs pirate radio station. Muslim leaders at the conference called for an intensification of the campaign to bring Sikh and Hindu women to Islam. The same thing happened at HUTs Rally for Islam conference in Trafalgar Square, August 1995. This time 2 Hindu women were converted on stage in front of 2000 cheering Muslims. Again Muslim leaders demanded that Muslims boys try harder to convert Sikh and Hindu girls.
4. The self appointed Muslim parliament of Britain passed a resolution demanding that the British government make it illegal for Muslim women to marry non-Muslim. It also called for the banning of conversions of Muslims to other faiths. Any Muslim who did convert was to be stoned to death according Islamic tradition. Thankfully, the British government did not take their demand seriously, but the event showed the Muslims double standards and hypocrisy.
5. HUT leaders issued a directive in January 1995 to specially selected male members telling them to place Ads in personal columns of national newspapers inviting relationships from Asian women, they were told to write the religion and nationality of the girl were unimportant and be ambiguous about their own backgrounds by for example only describing themselves as Asian. They were further told to form intimate relationships with only Sikh and Hindu girls who replied with the aim of conversion. The expense of the Ads and any dates were to be paid by the HUT.
6. Certain Muslims have taken to wearing Karas (Sikh steel bracelet) at Bhangra gigs with the aim of specifically seeking to meet Hindu and Sikh girls. When meeting the Girls, these people identify themselves in such a way that the girl does not realise that they are Muslim, for example by shortening the name Mohammed to Mohan. They form relationships with the girl and begin the slow path to conversion.
7. A Muslim converting somebody, will never tell the person the whole story. For example when converting men they always leave out the part about having to be circumcised to become Muslim. After all what man would want half of his genitals cut off. Likewise girl converts are tricked into believing that men and women are equal to Islam. They are not told that rape victims according to the Koran have produce 4 Male witnesses of good character to say that they were raped or they will be charged with adultery and stoned according to Islamic tradition ( hundreds of cases where this has occurred are on file with Amnesty International, contact them for further information). Also according to the Koran, all man has to do to divorce his wife is say Talaq 3 times. For women of course getting a divorce is much harder. Besides which what woman wants to share her husband with three other women.
The new method that they are employing is to change their names by deed poll to Mohan singh and Balraj singh , they add surnames on to Gill and Hayer are two of there favorites. Please check the person you are going to marry and there credentials through your parents or close relatives NAMES MEAN NOTHING THERE ARE BEING CHANGED BY DEED POLL IT ONLY COSTS THEM A COUPLE OF HUNDRED POUNDS , SUPPLIED BY THEY'RE FANATICAL ELDERS!!!!
8. HUT leadership has instructed its members to specifically target problem groups of conversion. These include young teenage girls, people with social problems, the recently bereaved and victims of abuse as children. These people are considered to be weak willed and easily manipulated once identified the Muslim will try to convince their target that Islam will magically solve all their problems. Incidentally in 1992 the hut produced an article telling Muslim men to particularly target non-Muslim girls with plain or unattractive physical, facial or body features. These girls the article said would not be accustomed to this attention and would do anything to maintain a relationship. It went on to say that the discomfort you may feel in such relationships, especially if intimate is only temporary however the rewards you will receive in Heaven will last for eternity.
9. The HUT has instructed Muslims to work in groups when converting, with one person forming a very close friendship with their target. The group then works to find out the strengths and weaknesses of the person involved and then will work accordingly. If for example, the person loves sport and is very athletic, they go on about how Islam actively encourages sport and how all the world's best sportsmen such as Muhammad Ali, Tyson and Imran Khan are Muslims. If the person has a strongly anti-white attitude, then they will stir up racial hatred against whites even more by talking about past white injustices against them. This policy has been used effectively with Afro-Caribbean's, with whom they talk about the slave trade and give Malcolm X as role model (Muslim groups leafleted black cinema audiences watching Malcolm X when it was released ). Similarly, the hard up have been offered well-paid jobs with Muslim businesses providing they convert.
10. Forced conversions do occur. There have been many documented cases ( at least one in Southall ) when Sikh and Hindu girls have been taken to Pakistan by their Muslim boyfriends and forcibly converted. Those resisting are passed on to other Muslim men who keep the girl under lock and key, in some remote village without telephones. All the girls money and her passport are taken away. Other cases have occurred when Sikh and Hindu girls are photographed naked by their Muslim boyfriends, and are told to convert or else the photos will be published in magazines and sent to the girls family and friends. These are not tragically scare stories but facts.
CONVERSIONS INTO ISLAM almost always occur out of a persons IGNORANCE or MISUNDERSTANDING of their own religion. Take time to understand your religion and educate others. The process of conversion is usually very SUBTLE and GRADUAL. It always occurs progressively UNDERMINING YOUR CULTURE and RELIGION through misquoting religious texts and falsifying historical events. Be on guard and stop them from speaking lies about your religion be you Sikh or Hindu. The HUT and other Muslim groups have said that they aim to make FRANCE, an ISLAMIC REPUBLIC by the year 2015 and Britain by 2025 through CONVERSIONS, IMMIGRATION and high MUSLIM BIRTH RATES. THE DIFFERENT WAYS THE HUT ARE ATTACKING US
Fanatics are now vandalising books on Sikhism and religious texts such as the Guru Granth Sahib in Council, School, and college libraries. About 30% of the time this vandalism involves the writing of false propaganda and messages to the readers of the book. These messages usually attempts to UNDERMINE your faith by MISQUOTING religious texts and distorting reality. Check your local library especially if you live in an area with a history of trouble.
Recent events have shown that groups have become increasingly envious of our prosperity in this country. They are now systematically trying their best to damage us financially. In some Mosques speakers have told worshippers to boycott Sikh and Hindu shops. However, the most obvious example of this economic sabotage would be that of the Bradford riots. These were not as the media have us believe merely a case of Asian youths uprising and fighting white fascist police brutality, but more a situation where gangs went on rampage, burning and looting non-Muslim property. The Economist Magazine ( June 17th 1995 edition ) reported that No Hindu nor Sikh youths took part, only Muslim males. Indian owned business were attacked. In fact other reports state that older, masked Muslims ( thought to be HUT ) went down the streets ahead of everyone else, and specifically marked out Sikh and Hindu shops with spray paint, for destruction by rioters following them. Don't be fooled by the Muslim media, Sikhs and Hindus were the victims of the Muslim riots in Bradford.
The HUT produced and circulated articles in universities, stating that Jewish, Sikh and Hindu students were dogs and must be removed from higher education. (As reported in the Guardian, 31st October 1995 edition). The Muslims have realised that the power, respect, money and knowledge and influence brings makes us more powerful enemies. The exact strategy for preventing us from obtaining higher education has not yet been leaked, but the harassment and bullying Hindu and Sikh students at schools and colleges ( by such acts as the storming of West Thames college in Jan 1995 ) is bound to be a part of it. After all how can anyone work in places of such stress. Our youths must strive to get highly educated as they possibly can. University students should act as role models and encourage younger members of the community to get an education. This will greatly benefit not only you and your family, but help your community.
Youths have been instructed to infiltrate any and every organisation and position of authority they can. They have also been told to keep their Islamic fundamentalist secret and subtly remove our community from a position within these organisations. For example, they have been directed to join Student Union bodies, the Media, anti-racist groups community groups, councils and political parties.
Check out this ::::::http://www.ca-c.org/dataeng/10.babadzh.shtml
Still baffled by your response
As regards the Catholic belief, while not as forward as Anglican, same sex relationships are generally accepted, although 'the act' is still deemed sinful. In short though, I don't believe either of the religions you've mentioned (in this day and age) suggest homosexuality = hell.
So I'm wondering what the general Islamic view on homosexuality is?
Now I have had a chance to ask a practicing Muslim, he states they hold the same kind of belief as the Catholics. It's sinful, but accepted.
Everyone who is critical of Islam here seems to belief that the Facist Islam or Fundamental Islamic interpretations are the norm. They are not.
this line caught my eye when skipping past your post....damn funny.
Why do the moderate muslims never protest in the street and shout out against the extremists?
TBH - No different to most things is it. You have the vocal-minority, and then the non-vocal-majority.
But putting it in context with this thread. Extremists threaten violence/death over some cartoons, so this peaceful 'demonstration' is born of 'Draw Mohammed Day'.
Does this result in the non-vocal-majority showing their distain for the cause of the action, extremists threatening violence/death? Seemingly not. Instead they point their efforts attacking the harmless result, rather than the dangerous cause of it all.
And even at governmental levels, do some countries condemn the reason behind the hole issue no, they censor the peaceful demonstration in effect. If only they'd put half as much effort into showing their disapproval of the extremists and mentality creating the issue in the first place.
Why don't you ?
you are more like the extremists than Spawn or Shakeel.
oh be quiet, I was asking a question unlike your troll post
some read the quran and interpret a message of peace -: Spawn - Shakeel - Vita
some interpret a message of hate - Hook man - bhaav - tiptop - & the rest of the extremists
surely you can see the point im making ....sorry for not typing your name in caps
so now i ask YOU....why dont YOU protest in the streets against the extremists ?
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