May 20 is ‘Everybody Draw Mohammed Day’

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Actually your latter post doesn't actually change anything, it was a history lesson on religion (and possibly not entirely accurate considering the dark ages weren't actually all that dark really). If the morality in religion is a reflection of society rather than driving society then a society without religion would still have the same morality it would just be reflected in a different way. We just don't know what would have developed because religion was there instead.



I don't really disagree with you, I just think that religion served and still serves a purpose especially among the less educated and poorest cultures and nations, I believe that without religion we would not have civilized or created a rule of law without it and it's rituals.

The ritualistic aspect of religion is always overlooked in these kind of threads and most religions rituals are just forms of education.

I also believe and thought I made it clear that I think that education is the driving force in our moral codes and the more educated we become the more highly developed our morals become, religion is just a system of education, as our knowledge and level of educaton ebb and flow, religion has a habit of doing the same in the opposite direction.

And we have plenty of history and plenty of modern day examples of using a religion that are just as nasty.


Which kind of says that I am correct in my earlier assumption that Men do evil thing, not religions. Something you also disagreed with. It seems you just wish to be argumentative rather than anythign else. :p

The point still stands, if the bad in religion is the fault of bad men and not the religion then surely the good in religion is the fault of good men and not the religion? Why only ascribe the positive to religion?

I ascribe it to a positive interpretation of religion rather that the religion itself, much in the same way as a negative interpretation results in negative actions.
 
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Having perused quite a few pages I have concluded that nobody has changed their views one little bit which is hardly surprising I suppose.
a brief summing up :p

some religious posters are very obviously victims of their upbringing & schooling whereas unlike religion Atheism is not taught at school so others have come to their own conclusions as to the non existance of god.

some Agnostics on here appears very heavily biased in favour of there being a god, never questioning why others believe there is one but always on the defensive against those who believe there is not

you all know who you are :D runs for cover
 
im one of those who (likes to) believe there is more to life than just this....what that may be, i have no idea.
do i think i will burn in hell for eternity for not praying ...nope i can't understand why a God would need me to do that.

would i ask anyone else to believe the same as me....ofcourse not, what they believe is their choice and i think that it is important that people are free to believe what they choose without being attacked/bullied.

i wouldnt like people having a go at me because i dont pray and in the same way i won't have a go at them for praying.
 
Well if the thread was attacking atheism I for one would defend their right to disbelieve just as much as a theists right believe...


so basically you like to defend the right of people to hold a given belief in something regardless of how bizarre it appears to non believers & switch sides accordingly ?

Nothing really wrong with that I suppose but where do you draw the line if for instance I said I worship fire breathing dragons but others on here then call me an idiot for having such stupid beliefs because everyone knows there are no such things ? would you defend my belief ?
I guess you wouldn't because there can be no doubt that there are no fire breathing dragons
 
Education was not always the norm, you are forgetting that one overriding aspect of civilisations development out of barbarism was driven by religious education of a moralistic code and law. No matter how you shake and bake it, everyone has been affected somehow by that.

Athiesm grew out of Roman practicality, but by this time education and moral law making was already in place, when Rome fell and the Dark ages began barbarism didn't take too long to resurface and shortly after this began a religious revival which took us throught to the renaissance of the 16th-17th century where education and philosophical speculation came to the fore again and so on.

Do you see my point yet, it's not about the belief in a deity or not, but the control and codes it instills, replace it with rule of law and education and you get the same result, but with neither you have barbarism and anarchy.

Education alone will not stop the deeds done in religions name, as the Balkans and such examples show.

Agreed, but you're talking of times long gone...

Are you suggesting we still need a veil between us and reality for us to somehow cope? You think we need mystical threats to keep us in check, instead of simple good lessons on morals and compassion?
 
so basically you like to defend the right of people to hold a given belief in something regardless of how bizarre it appears to non believers & switch sides accordingly ?

Nothing really wrong with that I suppose but where do you draw the line if for instance I said I worship fire breathing dragons but others on here then call me an idiot for having such stupid beliefs because everyone knows there are no such things ? would you defend my belief ?
I guess you wouldn't because there can be no doubt that there are no fire breathing dragons

Believing in fire breathing dragons in isolation is not a religion, if like some Chinese ethnic religions Dragons are a representation of siritual beings and Gods, then Yes I would defend you right to those beliefs.
 
Agreed, but you're talking of times long gone...

Are you suggesting we still need a veil between us and reality for us to somehow cope? You think we need mystical threats to keep us in check, instead of simple good lessons on morals and compassion?

I'm talking of historical significance in regard to our cultural, societal and educational standards, not all the world is as fortunate, and here religion still has a role to play in that regard.

We still have a need for threats of consequences even in a modern western nation, that is why we have laws, do we need religion for this, no as we have a sophisticated law enforcement system and highly developed educational systems. Many today do not.

Also because of that history whether we like it or not our modern views on morals and laws are coloured and influenced still by what religious doctrine began so long ago. If without religion would we have created other forms of Moral Control and Education techniques, I expect so, but I would imagine the process may have been somewhat longer and infinitely more bloody.

I think you will find that as education and access to philosophical debate becomes more common place then religion will increasingly find itself supplanted by a more pragmatic moral code.

It would be interesting to see how many atheists for example have an absolute belief that this life is it, that spirituality of whatever form is a nonsense and that our perception of reality is the be all and end all of our individual short existence.

I always wondered what a true totally pragmatic Atheist makes of Multiversal Quantum Physics for example?

There will always be exceptions I am sure, but that's what I believe.
 
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im one of those who (likes to) believe there is more to life than just this....

And here is where it all starts. :rolleyes:
Why should there be more? Why would there be more?
Because you had the fortune to be born human instead of cockroach, or do cockroaches go to heaven if they live a good, subserviant, poor life too?
I'd love to know what a cockroach has to do to get into heaven or become a ghost.
 
And here is where it all starts. :rolleyes:
Why should there be more? Why would there be more?
Because you had the fortune to be born human instead of cockroach, or do cockroaches go to heaven if they live a good, subserviant, poor life too?
I'd love to know what a cockroach has to do to get into heaven or become a ghost.

why would there not be more ?
who said there is no more for cockroaches ?
who said there was a Heaven ?

:p
 
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why would there not be more ?

But I think you are missing the point, why would there be?
I'd like to know what evidence we have (Britains most haunted excluded) to suggest there WOULD be anything. I'm flabbergasted as to why you just seem to think there is anything after you die? Because you think you are too important in this universe to just... well... die?

Hmm.
 
Back on topic.

A picture of the prophet Mohammed (please pee upon him) as he would look in this day and age, taking his thousands of children out for a walk.
BTW his wife is the child holding his hand. ;)

benefits.jpg


EDIT: forgive the child with the square head, but inbreeding is a terrible thing.
 
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But I think you are missing the point, why would there be?
I'd like to know what evidence we have (Britains most haunted excluded) to suggest there WOULD be anything. I'm flabbergasted as to why you just seem to think there is anything after you die? Because you think you are too important in this universe to just... well... die?

Hmm.



im one of those who (likes to) believe there is more to life than just this....what that may be, i have no idea.

so by me saying 'im one of those who (likes to) believe there is more to life than just this' ...the meaning you get out of it is that i feel i'm too important in this universe and i can't just die ....lol
well i guess some people dont change :p
 
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