May 20 is ‘Everybody Draw Mohammed Day’

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so you're changing your mind after being proved wrong.


there are no depths that you wont stoop to :p

No, you just have comprehension failure. I never changed my mind, I said what I did right here:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=16758715&postcount=3265

Prior to that I said 'I have never heard of honour killings happening outside of Muslim families'.

What I meant was that I have never heard of them outiside of the western world.

In the UK, Europe, Canada, America, and Australia, the honour killings that do occur will be in the majority among Muslims living there only.

This isnt a change of opinion, it is describing exactly why I am led to believe what I do.
 
Honor killings have nothing to do with Islam (or any religion I've ever encountered/read about)

So how many atheists have you heard of that have carried out honour killings?

Please enlighten me since religion has nothing to do with it.

This is only two lines, not 7 paragraphs.


Copy paste from a user opinion on your link:

I am incredibly shocked at the article written by Rose Pennington on Islamic Honor Killings,'Honor Killings: Always Wrong and Never Islamic' written on the Muslim Voices web site.

The journal piece claims that Islam does not condone such killings is either ignorance of the understanding of Islam teaching or a feeble attempt to deceive the public. Ms. Pennington is incredibly deceived by this clash of societies. If you are not an Arab and/or refuse to follow Islam, you should be dead. It is written in the Qur'an.

Islam is a religion of peace only if you believe in Islam.

The education of students in journalism in America is producing limited thinkers. As the Qur'an was first translated into the English language in the 1950's there has not been much time for cultures outside of the Arab world to examine the true agenda and ultimate goal of Islam.

I challenge Muslim Voices to examine how a journalism piece can come to such a limited conclusion about a culture bent on violence of the past 1,600 years. I also challenge the use of 'comparison' between different cultures to attempt debate how one culture is better or worse than another culture. These ancient techniques of argument only serve to feed the course of destruction and pit ones thought process against another. This argument process serves as a shadow to hide the violent components written in the Qur'an and is an endless circle. It is also written that deception is a tool to be used to serve the goals written in the Qur'an.

People writing articles based on ridiculous political correctness =/= truth.
 
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Athiests huh?

Domestic violence (as mentioned in the article) is more similar to honor killings than any other crime and domestic violence is ripe in the western world. Many lead to killings, many do not.

As said in the link, it's linked but because it happens so often you only hear about the major cases in the media plus why would the media put focus on some random domestic violence unless there's some high chance of it pulling in viewer attention.

You don't quite understand how the media works.
 
No not at all! Domestic violence has very little to do with honor killings, or stabbing your own daughter because she stayed out untill 3am. Most teenagers in the western world go out these days, Ive never heard of anyone getting stabbed by a parent over it.

Domestic violence usually means hitting or verbal abuse, and in most cases is towards a partner, not towards the children. In any such case, it usually doesnt happen because a teenager is being a teenager.

You don't quite understand how the media works.

Something happens, they write an article on it. People who complain about the media are scared of or trying to hide the truth. Please dont bother mentioning Daily Fail, media lies are one thing, real stories are another.
 
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Athiests huh?

Domestic violence (as mentioned in the article) is more similar to honor killings than any other crime and domestic violence is ripe in the western world. Many lead to killings, many do not.

As said in the link, it's linked but because it happens so often you only hear about the major cases in the media plus why would the media put focus on some random domestic violence unless there's some high chance of it pulling in viewer attention.

You don't quite understand how the media works.

This is getting ridiculous now..

Is it really that difficult to under stand that "just because someone else does something, doesnt mean its OK".

Useing domestic violence to "justify" honor killings in islam (or even anywhere else). good job. i doubt you realise what you are actually saying.
 
No, you just have comprehension failure. I never changed my mind

What I meant was that I have never heard of them outiside of the western world.



This isnt a change of opinion, it is describing exactly why I am led to believe what I do.


i really dont see how you meant to say the above and came out with

Its a culture thing that out of all the cases of honour killings, is only common among the Muslim faith and not of the other religions.


...its not even close lol.
 
Its a culture thing that out of all the cases of honour killings, is only common among the Muslim faith and not of the other religions.

Just add 'In Europe and America' at the end. I myself had never heard of honour killings outside of the western world thanks, and within the western world, it pretty much only happens among Muslim familes, which is what led to my assumption.

If you cant understand that, then thats not my problem.
 
NeilFawcett and RDM are both adherents of non-belief Atheism and at least they stick to the facts and make a cognisant arguement.

Quick correction, I am agnostic, not atheist. Far too big a universe for me to make a decision on the existence of a god like diety.
 
Quick correction, I am agnostic, not atheist. Far too big a universe for me to make a decision on the existence of a god like diety.

Sorry my mistake. I am in agreement with that statement however. :)

In light of your Agnosticism I now see that you were only engaging in alternative supposition earlier in the thread rather than being argumentative. My apologies.

I am typing on my new touchscreen tablet for the first time also....:D
 
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Just add 'In Europe and America' at the end. I myself had never heard of honour killings outside of the western world thanks, and within the western world, it pretty much only happens among Muslim familes, which is what led to my assumption.

If you cant understand that, then thats not my problem.



then why not say that the first time round....there is always a bit of extra bs you put into the posts to make islam look bad.
and everytime someone checks you end up being a liar....anyway its clearly not a muslim thing anyway....just some liar was screaming at the top of his voice claiming it was.

anyway here are some examples of people who are not living in the middle east and are not muslim...just to show it happens in the west and even to non-muslims ...even your changed version would make you a liar bhaav

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/03/01/atwal050301.html
http://www.primetimecrime.com/APNS/20030724jassi.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-452270/Mother-law-lured-cheating-wife-death.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3683577.stm
 
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And if we were to compare all the cases that occur among non muslim families to those among muslim families, the latter would be far greater that all the rest combined.

I dont really need to put anything into my posts or try in anyway to make Islam look bad, it does that itself.

Every year in the UK, a dozen women are victims of honor killings, occurring almost exclusively to date within Asian and Middle Eastern families,[21] and often cases are unresolved due to the unwillingness of family, relatives and communities to testify. A 2006 BBC poll for the Asian network in the UK found that 1 in 10 of the 500 young Asians polled said that they could condone the murder of someone who dishonored their family.[22] In the UK, in December 2005, Nazir Afzal, Director, West London, of Britain's Crown Prosecution Service, stated that the United Kingdom has seen "at least a dozen honour killings" between 2004 and 2005.[23] While precise figures do not exist for the perpetrators' cultural backgrounds, Diana Nammi of the UK's Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation is reported to have said: "about two-thirds are Muslim. Yet they can also be Hindu, Sikh and even eastern European."[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

Plenty more examples there showing that it does tend to be predominantly Muslim families that are affected by honor killings.

However, in all the cases, they are no doubt caused by a religious culture of some kind.

So I can conclude that believing in God, regardless of religion = violent crazy people, but there are just more in Islam.
 
well that speaks volumes about the muslim mentality doesnt it.

It's just easier to kill people than reason with them huh.

You're such a nice person.

LOL oh dear...you really really have no comprehension skills do you??. Nowhere have i said that i condone eradicating people...thought you would have been able to read between the lines but clearly not;).

I said if you want to eradicate religion as a whole then you will need to eradicate religious people as well...nowhere have i said that we should do that and nowhere have i said that its what i want as well...it was a point i was trying to make...clearly you missed that point in a big way.
 
Right now I'm wondering, is it possible to be a 'good muslim' in the opinion of the Muslims posting here, and still listen to and enjoy music?

http://www.inter-islam.org/Prohibitions/Mansy_music.htm#top

Pro Islam website, not an Anti Islam one.

Introduction

In recent years, certain developments have taken place which has brought the subject of music as an extremely significant issue. Music has spread to such an extent that it is afflicting every muslim in this modern era. Today, individuals are being confronted by a situation where one is forced to listen to music whether by choice or without. Music is played in nearly all department stores and super markets. Even whilst walking in the streets, we find cars blaring with music. No matter which direction we go, we are blasted with music. The increasing popularity of music, which is prevalent in our society poses a tremendous danger for muslims.

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Music is Haraam

References within the context of the Holy Qur`aan along with the Hadith of the Prophet confirm that music is haraam.
Interpreters of the Qur`aan have defined the term `lahwal hadith` which is mentioned in the Qur`aan as:

1) Singing and listening to songs.
2) Purchasing of male and female singers.
3) Purchase of instruments of fun and amusement.

When Sayyidana Abdullah Ibne Mas`ood , a very close companion of our Prophet was asked about the meaning of the term `lahwal hadith`, he replied
“I swear by Him besides whom there is no other God,that it refers to ghinaa (singing ).”

This statement, he repeated three times. This view is unanimously supported by the four Khalifas, the eminent Sahabaah, Tabi`een, the four Imaams and other reliable Islaamic scholars and authorities.

One hadith from the Bukhari Shareef, the most authentic Book of Hadith, further confirms unlawfulness of music and singing :
`There will be people of my Ummah who will seek to make lawful; fornication, wine-drinking and the use of ma`aazif ( musical instruments ).`

Detailed analysis of the arabic word `ma`aazif ` shows that it refers to musical instruments, the sounds of those musical instruments and singing with the accompaniment of instruments.

Closer analysis of the wordings of the Hadith establishes the prohibition of music. Firstly, the words `seek to make lawful ` shows that music is not permissible, as logically one can only seek to make lawful that which is not allowed. Secondly, if music was not prohibited, then it would not have been brought within the same context as fornication and wine-drinking.
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MUSIC - IT`S EFFECTS

Muslims are aware that nothing has been prohibited by Allah except that which is harmful to the welfare of a Muslim individual and the society as a whole. The divine attribute behind the prohibition of music can be comprehended by looking into the diverse influence music can have.

Experiments carried out by doctors and professors have confirmed that the music of today is such that it does not only affect the brain, but each and every organ of one`s body. There is a close relationship between music and bodily movements. We find that people listening to music automatically start tapping their fingers and feet, as if the music is permeating in their blood.

It is also proved that music affect`s one`s emotions, increases arousal in terms of alertness and excitement and also leads to various physiological changes in the person. In a psychology experiment, it was found that listening to moderate type of music increased one`s normal heart beat, whilst listening to rock music the heart beat increased even further, yet people claim that music has no effect.

It is a very ignorant and misguided attitude to percieve music as a form of pleasure and passing of time, since the messages of today`s music follow a general theme of love, fornication, drugs and freedom.

We find that the whole world is obsessed with the kufr idea of freedom, i.e. freedom of speech, freedom of movement, etc. In modern schools and universities, we observe independence, free expression and secular thinking being encouraged. This idea of freedom, “ It`s my life, I`ll do what I want” is a predominant, underlying theme of today`s music. It is being used as a means for drilling those modern ideologies that are totally contrary to Islamic Shariah and values, into the minds of Muslims.

One should abstain from evil audacities such as listening to music and encourage others to do the same too.

That would also rule out playing video games that contain music right?
 
Wrong.

Do you always believe what some Frontpage styled website tells you?

I guess you do actually.

I've never heard of a single person tell me or anyone I know that music is not allowed.

I think the truth of the matter here is that you need to get a clue instead of relying on internet website writers that can't even be bothered to design a professional looking website to begin with.
 
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Wrong.

Do you always believe what some Frontpage styled website tells you?

I guess you do actually.

I've never heard of a single person tell me or anyone I know that music is not allowed.

I think the truth of the matter here is that you need to get a clue instead of relying on internet website writers that can't even be bothered to design a professional looking website to begin with.


Amen to that...;)
 
Wrong.

Do you always believe what some Frontpage styled website tells you?

I guess you do actually.

I've never heard of a single person tell me or anyone I know that music is not allowed.

I think the truth of the matter here is that you need to get a clue instead of relying on internet website writers that can't even be bothered to design a professional looking website to begin with.

Complete BS.

Music is absolutely disallowed in Islam as written in the koran / hadiths, this isnt the first time I have read about it, I have heard it many and numerous times by Muslims.

You dont know anything about your religion, I suggest you go and read the Koran.
 
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Complete BS.

Music is absolutely disallowed in Islam, this isnt the first time I have read about it, I have heard it many and numerous times by Muslims.

did your taliban friends tell you this ?
you do know movies/documentries/soaps/cartoons/radio even adverts contain music.
i guess all you muslims in the uk need to get rid of your t.v's and radios as taliban bhaav is unhappy with you all


You dont know anything about your religion, I suggest you go and read the Koran.

whats the point its not like they can read it the same way as you:p
 
did your taliban friends tell you this ?
you do know movies/documentries/soaps/cartoons/radio even adverts contain music.
i guess all you muslims in the uk need to get rid of your t.v's and radios as taliban bhaav is unhappy with you all

Hey, I'm not unhappy with it, its their religion that is.

Many moderate muslims, you know, like the ones that think you have to pray 5 times a day, and that women have to wear Burkas, will also tell you that Music is completely forbidden and sinful in Islam.

Whether you believe it or not is your own choice, but according to Islam, the Koran, and many MODERATE muslims, you cant be a good Muslim and listen to music.

And this is definately NOT an Anti Islam video:


This is what many great Islamic scholars themselves have said about music. If you dont feel like watching, Islamic Scholars AGREE that Music is Haraam and forbidden in Islam, and that any Scholar that has ever said that Music is permissable in Islam was mistaken.
 
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Complete BS.

Music is absolutely disallowed in Islam as written in the koran / hadiths, this isnt the first time I have read about it, I have heard it many and numerous times by Muslims.

You dont know anything about your religion, I suggest you go and read the Koran.


lol. By your own admission you haven't even read the Qur'an.

You are confusing Nasheeds or devotion musical rules with music in general.

Islam doesn't prohibit Music at all, and because of the multi-cultural nature of Islam its musical history is extremely diverse.

Just because some nutty Imam says it's forbidden doesn't make it so. The same as an Evangelist saying that hip-hop is the music of Satan. It's idiocy and only idiots and extremists pay any attention.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_music
 
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