May 20 is ‘Everybody Draw Mohammed Day’

[bhavv]

Islam does completely prohibit music in the Koran and the Hadiths.

Every major Scholar that has studied Islam and the Koran has fully concluded that this is true.

So you are saying that the Koran, Hadiths, and what everyone of those scholars say is a lie? Thats quite a bold claim to make.

Music is Haraam

References within the context of the Holy Qur`aan along with the Hadith of the Prophet confirm that music is haraam.
Interpreters of the Qur`aan have defined the term `lahwal hadith` which is mentioned in the Qur`aan as:

1) Singing and listening to songs.
2) Purchasing of male and female singers.
3) Purchase of instruments of fun and amusement.

When Sayyidana Abdullah Ibne Mas`ood , a very close companion of our Prophet was asked about the meaning of the term `lahwal hadith`, he replied
“I swear by Him besides whom there is no other God,that it refers to ghinaa (singing ).”

So you are honestly trying to tell me that this, along with the video I posted with the exact same thing being discussed is a lie? Lol, you have absolutely no clue about music in Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_music

Also, just because some Muslims practice music, doesnt confirm in any way whatsoever what the religion actually teaches about it. They can disobey and go against the teachings of their religion as much as they like, it doesnt bother me in the slightest, but music is still very much forbidden in the Koran and by the teachings of Mohammed.

Just as much as some Christians can be gay, that is no indication that homosexuality is tolerated and not forbidden by the bible.

 

[mrk]

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[bhavv]

Keep telling yourself that.

Keep deceiving yourself and following your religion incorrectly.

Islam forum discussing Music here:

http://forum.challengeyoursoul.com/forum/topic1419.html

it wasn't a definition of a scholar in islaam, it was a general definition. but as Allah says in the Qur'aan that the people waste time with idle talk (i.e music) so if someone else tells you that music, or interest etc is permissable then this is his humanness and its where he has made a mistake.

as i was saying that you should look at their works and compare it with the book of Allah, whatever you think is closer to the book of Allah then you should follow that. and if anything goes against it then you should abstain from it.

Evidence of prohibition in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:

Allaah says in Soorat Luqmaan (interpretation of the meaning):

“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6]

The scholar of the ummah, Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: this means singing. Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this means playing the drum (tabl). (Tafseer al-Tabari, 21/40).

Al-Hasan al-Basri (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this aayah was revealed concerning singing and musical instruments (lit. woodwind instruments). (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/451).

So confirm for me again, you think that all this is a lie?

lol. By your own admission you haven't even read the Qur'an.

By the way, I cant read or understand arabic, so I would rather listen to what Muslims / Ex Muslims, and Islamic scholars themselves say about their religion.

In case you didnt realise, these are all such reasons for exactly why I hate Islam.

 

[Gaidin109]

So you are saying that the Koran, Hadiths, and what everyone of those scholars say is a lie? Thats quite a bold claim to make.

NO, I am saying that you are an idiot for believing interpretations of the Qur'an made by extremists and those with a political axe to grind.

The Qur'an has no verses that expressly forbid or permit music and that is a Fact, all the garbage you are babbling is interpretation of some phrophets Hadeeths.

What about the Mu'ethin, sounds pretty musical to me.

Read something that is not indoctrinated in a specific fundamental view and looks at Arab contribution to Western Music, something a little more moderate.

http://www.muslimheritage.com/uploads/Music2.pdf

Without Arabic and Islamic invention of musical instruments we would not have the Guitar, Flute, Harp, Violin/Fiddle, Piano as they are all derived from the Muslim equivalent.

 

[bhavv]

NO, I am saying that you are an idiot for believing interpretations of the Qur'an made by extremists and those with a political axe to grind.

The Qur'an has no verses that expressly forbid or permit music and that is a Fact, all the garbage you are babbling is interpretation of some phrophets Hadeeths.

None of this is made up by the extremists, this is fully written inside the Koran.

Islamic Scholars are usually not extremists you do know.

Your facts are completely, wrong, there definately ARE lines in the Koran that forbid music, you just refuse to accept the truth.

Also, I already answered the rest of your post:

Also, just because some Muslims practice music, doesnt confirm in any way whatsoever what the religion actually teaches about it. They can disobey and go against the teachings of their religion as much as they like, it doesnt bother me in the slightest, but music is still very much forbidden in the Koran and by the teachings of Mohammed.

Just as much as some Christians can be gay, that is no indication that homosexuality is tolerated and not forbidden by the bible.

 

[Gaidin109]

By the way, I cant read or understand arabic, so I would rather listen to what Muslims / Ex Muslims, and Islamic scholars themselves say about their religion.

In case you didnt realise, these are all such reasons for exactly why I hate Islam.

Which is why you have no idea what you are talking about, as you are only listening to a vocal minority and not making a judgement based on your own interpretation. There are many English translations of the Quran, if you had not noticed.

The Bible wasn't originally written in English you know...

 

[bhavv]

Which is why you have no idea what you are talking about, as you are only listening to a vocal minority and not making a judgement based on your own interpretation. There are many English translations of the Quran, if you had not noticed.

The Bible wasn't originally written in English you know...

Music would be forbidden in the correct English translation as well.

 

[mrk]

Oh? How much nonsense are you going to speak in this thread, carry on!

 

[Gaidin109]

None of this is made up by the extremists, this is fully written inside the Koran.

Islamic Scholars are usually not extremists you do know.

Your facts are completely, wrong, there definately ARE lines in the Koran that forbid music, you just refuse to accept the truth.

Also, I already answered the rest of your post:

Music would be forbidden in the correct English translation as well.

http://www.freemuse.org/sw14339.asp

“There is no ban on music in the Qur’an, and those talking about which music is haram and which music is halal have very weak evidence” Shaikh Ibrahim Ramadan Al-Mardini, from the Beirut Studies and Documentation Centre in Lebanon, told the conference.
He said that “a music culture is necessary for people to develop themselves,” adding that “any limitation on the arts is the opposite of what religion calls for.”
Al-Mardini said that “music doesn’t know male or female,” and that it is not for religious scholars to control people but to guide them. “The individual has to rule his or her own life through their own judgement,” he said, noting that Islamic scholars in the last century often had a very good knowledge of culture and art, and that “culture is something owned by everyone, and not something that a few persons should decide upon.”
The religious scholars interpret the rules and correct people when they go astray. Justifying some forms of music, Al-Mardini quoted the Prophet saying to one of his Companions, “You came with a very good ear.” The mufti (Shari’a judge) is entrusted with disclosing the judgements of God, basing his views on the Qur’an, the Hadith and the Sunna. Music is not banned in Islam; strong counter-evidence exists showing that it is allowed. In Islam reading was traditionally accompanied by music.

Shaikh Al-Mardini questions the sources invoked to ban music. For example, 80 Hadiths were used to prove it unlawful but of these seventy were dhaif (weak) or very weak.
There is no Qur’anic text banning music, he insisted.
In Islam the Sultan only intervenes when humans deviate from God’s judgement; the Sultan and the faqih (Islamic jurist) are symbiotic.
Censorship, Shaikh Al-Mardini noted critically, exists to preserve regimes.
“Censorship has turned into a totalitarian tool which is preserving the existence of regimes – we see this all over the world. Who can impose a just censorship without being biased?” the Shaikh asked.
Shaikh Al-Mardini said that he completely rejects censorship, arguing that it is not the mission of the faqih to condemn things; his job is merely to guide the faithful. A fatwa is no good unless it develops. It must not be static. The faqih has to be flexible. The faqih must be with the times and understand them.
Any constraints on arts is against religion, he said, and concluded that music is a universal discourse; it is the language of this discourse and anyone can express himself, whether he is right or wrong. Those who have said that Islam forbids music are completely false; the evidence is not correct, he said.
From the earliest history in all cultures we have seen people who wanted to ban music but societies have always co-existed with music.

You also might want to look up exactly what a Hadith is, The Qur'anic Text of Islam is not the same as the Hadith, and the Hadith have a level of acceptance or strength within the Jurisprudence of Islam, and none of the one regarding Music are regarded as strong or even accepted in most cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Hadith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith

 

[bhavv]

Anyone that says music is permissable in Islam is mistaken.

A quote from the Scholars of Islam.

And what you have posted about Hadiths proves that they are valid and accurate meanings of the original text and narrative of Mohammed.

 

[NeilF]

http://www.freemuse.org/sw14339.asp

I think what's quite interesting in that article, we once again seem to see religion (Islam) going out of its way to affect the behaviour of other people. If you don't think you should listen to music, then don't, but what business is it of your what others do,

And bringing us back onto topic. If you don't think you should draw cartoons about Mohammed, don't, but what business is it of your what others do. MY GOD! I just posted on topic!

ps: If Islamic folks tried making individuals turn off their music etc, I would expect to hear a 'sing about Mohammed day' as a nice peaceful reality check!

 

[bhavv]

http://www.freemuse.org/sw14339.asp

In the Swedish tv documentary, Faik Rustemi, a 23-year-old Muslim based in Sweden’s third largest city Malmö states it very simply: "Music is not allowed in Islam”.

The religious ban on music is promoted by Muslim scholars in Saudi Arabia such as Shaykh Munajjid who runs an “Islam Question & Answer” website which declares that music – even ring tones on mobile phones – are totally forbidden according to Islam:
"It is not permissible to use musical tunes for telephones or any other devices, because listening to musical instruments is haram, as is indicated by the evidence of sharee’ah."

Without an understanding of Islamic theology it is impossible to understand why music has created such an intense debate throughout the history of Islam.

So apparantly, the people with an understanding of Islamic theology, I.E. those that say Music is forbidden in Islam, are correct, and the people who say that music is allowed in Islam have no understanding of Islamic theology.

Just about every scholar that have studied Islam thoroughly have concluded music to be forbidden, and that thinking it is allowed is a mistake. The link you posted does confirm this.

But really, the solution is simple. If you are a muslim and want to listen to music, then why not simply leave Islam?

 

[Gaidin109]

I think what's quite interesting in that article, we once again seem to see religion (Islam) going out of its way to affect the behaviour of other people. If you don't think you should listen to music, then don't, but what business is it of your what others do,

And bringing us back onto topic. If you don't think you should draw cartoons about Mohammed, don't, but what business is it of your what others do. MY GOD! I just posted on topic!

ps: If Islamic folks tried making individuals turn off their music etc, I would expect to hear a 'sing about Mohammed day' as a nice peaceful reality check!

Not only Religions go out of their way to affect other people's behaviour though, that is human nature, Politics is entirely about affecting other's behaviour for example.

But you're right, live and let live.

We do have to be careful that in 'singing to our own hymn-sheet' that we take other's rights to do the same or not as the case may be into consideration.

 

[Gaidin109]

So apparantly, the people with an understanding of Islamic theology, I.E. those that say Music is forbidden in Islam, are correct, and the people who say that music is allowed in Islam have no understanding of Islamic theology.

I think you'll find that you mis-interpreted the Article, a little like those Scholars (23 years old!!!!!!) are guilty of doing to the Quran.

You assume that only Fundamentalists have an understanding of Qur'anic theology, and that is your problem.

Concluding the session the Shaikh noted that fundamentalism does not have a region.

“We find this in all societies”, he said, “some religious scholars are living mentally in former centuries and are issuing fatwas according to former times. Fatwas have to be issued according to the changes of society.”

 

[eatcustard]

What are the Religion of peace, allowed to do? (other than blowing yourselves up)

No music, No Bacon sandwiches, No pics of Mr Mo.

Please do tell

 

[Brian8bit]

Wow. 111 pages. Of ****. That's got to be some kind of record.

 

[Xinn]

My word, I've not really been following this thread too closely but from this page alone I can see Bhavv is a tool.

You are as bad as these brainwashed extremists yourself. Reading the interpretations of some people and claiming that that and that alone is correct and everybody else who doesn't agree is wrong.

 

[eatcustard]

My word, I've not really been following this thread too closely but from this page alone I can see Bhavv is a tool.

You are as bad as these brainwashed extremists yourself. Reading the interpretations of some people and claiming that that and that alone is correct and everybody else who doesn't agree is wrong.

Welcome to the world of RELIGION

 

[Gaidin109]

Anyone that says music is permissable in Islam is mistaken.

A quote from the Scholars of Islam.

And what you have posted about Hadiths proves that they are valid and accurate meanings of the original text and narrative of Mohammed.

It is interesting to see what Sheikh Ahmad Kutty a recognised Traditional Imam and Scholar of the Quran has to say on the matter of Music in Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Kutty

As a matter of fact, we know from the authentic traditions that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, not only allowed music in the weddings but also listened to girls singing: While listening to girls singing on such an occasion, he interrupted them only once when they sang the following verse, “In our midst is a prophet who knows what will happen tomorrow”; whence, the Prophet, peace be upon him, told them, “Cut this sentence out, and continue singing what you have been singing earlier.” There is nothing in the sources to indicate that the above permission is limited to the occasion of wedding, as some people tend to think.


In light of these, according to the last mentioned group of scholars, music that is deemed to be free of un-Islamic and unethical themes and messages, the same is true of musical instruments so long as they are not used for the above, have been considered as permissible.

http://www.askthescholar.com/AskTheScholar2.aspx?q=587


This is from a Traditionalist, Imams with a more liberal and modern view of the Qur'an are more accepting than Kutty, so no Music is not banned under Islam any more than any other religion or belief structure.

 

[Dark_Angel]

According to my boss, whom I just asked, and is Muslim, he said for a while he didn't listen to music, but said that opinion is divided. He now listens to it, and all of his friends apart from one also does.

He also stated that most realize it's almost impossible to not listen to it, and his friends and himself would rather focus on being a good person rather than caring about music. He did say some Scholars say that listening to music is fine, but can't be too sexual or violent.