#MeToo - is it just different for men and women?

NewGamer11 · 5 Nov 2017 at 10:07

Jokester said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41872427
Remains to be seen exactly what he's accused of doing, but if being "friendly" now counts as harassment god help us.

I don't understand why all these people are just folding after the accusation. I'd be standing up for myself and asking for a formal investigation, especially given the stunning lack of evidence.

Angilion said:
The logical conclusion of all this is sexual apartheid.

Well, the birth rate is already cratering in most "Western" nations so we're well on the way.

The thing that makes me laugh is the "male feminists". Do they really think the feminists wouldn't have their heads on a pike given the opportunity? After all they are male scum too.

EDIT - looking forward to some good, very discrete audio and visual recording devices being released to market. They way things are going men will be forced to "lifelog" themselves to cover off these types of allegation. People will say, "Ah, but you need permission to record..." and I say, **** that noise, do it anyway. Better to be found guilty of illegal recording than rape.

EDIT 2 - Have these gents never heard of suing for defamation of character?

RoboCod · 5 Nov 2017 at 10:10

We all know the score in the real world but unfortunately the frenzy and feeling that can be whipped up through media sources can have some impact on the real world.

There's some good points made in this thread though, particularly @Angilion with regards to the difficulty/inability for men to "man up" and restrain said unwanted advances by women. It's just not as simple as zethor makes out.

You do have to wonder where it all ends though. I'm all for the protection of women from sexual predators (of course!) but in 20 years time am I going to be found guilty in a court of law for looking at a woman "the wrong way" when I was younger?? You have to wonder how far it goes, what with the fact that the media will have you believe that shoulder touching is tantamount to sexual assault now!

Mason- · 5 Nov 2017 at 11:05

NewGamer11 said:
I don't understand why all these people are just folding after the accusation. I'd be standing up for myself and asking for a formal investigation, especially given the stunning lack of evidence.

I don't get it either, it's also pandering to the 'guilty until proven innocent tenet' that seems prevalent for sexual harassment cases.

TJM · 5 Nov 2017 at 11:23

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...v/04/michael-fallon-lunged-at-me-jane-merrick

For everyone who was whining on Michael Fallon’s behalf, here is the detail of the incident that led to his resignation two hours after it was reported to No 10. Men who don’t lunge at women in the middle of the working day have little to worry about.

teaboy5 · 5 Nov 2017 at 11:30

TJM said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...v/04/michael-fallon-lunged-at-me-jane-merrick

For everyone who was whining on Michael Fallon’s behalf, here is the detail of the incident that led to his resignation two hours after it was reported to No 10. Men who don’t lunge at women in the middle of the working day have little to worry about.

O ffs it was 14 years ago! She didn't have the balls to report it then as she was more worried about her career.

Jean-F · 5 Nov 2017 at 11:33

RoboCod said:
You do have to wonder where it all ends though. I'm all for the protection of women from sexual predators (of course!) but in 20 years time am I going to be found guilty in a court of law for looking at a woman "the wrong way" when I was younger?? You have to wonder how far it goes, what with the fact that the media will have you believe that shoulder touching is tantamount to sexual assault now!

I take your point, and we’ve all been guilty of looking at women the “wrong way”, if, as I presume you mean, the “wrong way” is registering with your eyes and brain that a woman is attractive, but not doing anything about it, just carrying on walking down the street, or up to the bar.
Hopefully though, in years to come, there’ll be no banner headlines on The Sun, saying Robocod and Jean-F indicted for looking at the barmaid in the Dog and Duck 20 years ago, hoping that they’d get served, (so they say), unless one or the other of us become A list slebs, or Government Ministers, as in reality, who’d give a toss what you or I did years ago.

NewGamer11 · 5 Nov 2017 at 11:40

TJM said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...v/04/michael-fallon-lunged-at-me-jane-merrick

For everyone who was whining on Michael Fallon’s behalf, here is the detail of the incident that led to his resignation two hours after it was reported to No 10. Men who don’t lunge at women in the middle of the working day have little to worry about.

Man in trying to kiss woman shocker!! Hanging is too good for him.

Whenever I saw Fallon after the incident he did not act inappropriately again, but I knew that his previous behaviour, and my silence, had changed utterly the power dynamic between us.

What a scumbag he is!

chroniclard · 5 Nov 2017 at 11:41

I would assume that most male posters wouldn't mind going to work each day and random women trying to cop a feel or constant remarks on an almost daily basis.

Hades · 5 Nov 2017 at 11:57

NewGamer11 said:
Man in trying to kiss woman shocker!! Hanging is too good for him.

What a scumbag he is!

Yes it's getting ridiculous now isn't it. He was out at lunch with a woman. They drunk a few glasses of wine together. Her memory is no doubt slightly clouded by 14 years. Her use of language such as "lunged" is designed to make it sound like he was an octopus and made a asserted attack on her.

But in reality he probably made an unwelcome advance on her after being at lunch drinking together. She delined. He's met her since and never tried again. It's hardly an attack.

Em3bbs · 5 Nov 2017 at 12:04

chroniclard said:
I would assume that most male posters wouldn't mind going to work each day and random women trying to cop a feel or constant remarks on an almost daily basis.

Actually, I can remember it happening a few times when I used to do desktop support as a contractor in the late 90s and I was in my early 20s prime. It was only ever taken as a bit of fun which it was intended as (although I'm sure I could have followed it up if I wanted to).

The general office environment used to be a much more fun place to work in back then though. More socialising as teams/companies in general. Now a lot of people just keep themselves to themselves.

Chris Wilson · 5 Nov 2017 at 12:15

Who is the bint claiming Weinstein raped her TWICE? That's either carelessness of some magnitude on her part, putting herself in a situation where her former (alleged) rapist could strike again, lies, or a lack of spacial and consensual awareness that might conceivably have been brought about by narcotic or alcohol abuse. The number of actresses claiming sexual abuse from him latterly seen draped around him at functions beggars belief

What was the Clint Eastwood film where some floozy was sexually teasing him so he dragged her into the stables and gave her a good seeing to? She loved it and later came back for more, from hazy memory. Not sure why that came to mind....

explicit4u · 5 Nov 2017 at 12:34

NewGamer11 said:
The thing that makes me laugh is the "male feminists". Do they really think the feminists wouldn't have their heads on a pike given the opportunity? After all they are male scum too.

No, not at all

LabR@t · 5 Nov 2017 at 13:04

Chris Wilson said:
Who is the bint claiming Weinstein raped her TWICE? That's either carelessness of some magnitude on her part, putting herself in a situation where her former (alleged) rapist could strike again, lies, or a lack of spacial and consensual awareness that might conceivably have been brought about by narcotic or alcohol abuse. The number of actresses claiming sexual abuse from him latterly seen draped around him at functions beggars belief What was the Clint Eastwood film where some floozy was sexually teasing him so he dragged her into the stables and gave her a good seeing to? She loved it and later came back for more, from hazy memory. Not sure why that came to mind....

But she wanted that part, didn't she?

Dirk Diggler · 5 Nov 2017 at 13:49

chroniclard said:
I would assume that most male posters wouldn't mind going to work each day and random women trying to cop a feel or constant remarks on an almost daily basis.

Except that isn't what's actually happened in the recent examples discussed, so God only knows why you think that statement is relevant to this conversation.

Here's one quoted example to help you understand how hyperbolic your "daily basis" is:

Whenever I saw Fallon after the incident he did not act inappropriately again, but I knew that his previous behaviour, and my silence, had changed utterly the power dynamic between us.

This is the point that every ********* in this thread misses time and again.

Em3bbs · 5 Nov 2017 at 14:15

It seems a bit of an overreaction for a failed kiss attempt. I've had relationships (or sometimes just horizontal refreshment) with colleagues in the past and although it can be awkward for a while you soon get over it, no matter which party decided to end the relationship. No way would I do it in this age if I was single though, which is a shame as a lot of good relationships/marraiges I know started by knowing each other at work.

TJM · 5 Nov 2017 at 15:59

teaboy5 said:
O ffs it was 14 years ago! She didn't have the balls to report it then as she was more worried about her career.

That's sort of the point. Reporting him could have wrecked her career so he knew he could get away with it trying it on at a working lunch.

This wasn't a social occasion. Journalists and politicians spend time together because having contacts is mutually beneficial and women should be able to work in those roles without having to fend off old gits.

If a man is really so emotionally brain dead that he has absolutely no idea whether his advances on a woman during the working day would be welcome or not, maybe he should err on the side of caution.

chroniclard · 5 Nov 2017 at 17:18

String said:
Except that isn't what's actually happened in the recent examples discussed, so God only knows why you think that statement is relevant to this conversation.

Here's one quoted example to help you understand how hyperbolic your "daily basis" is:

This is the point that every ********* in this thread misses time and again.

Its entirely relevant to some of the comments/misunderstanding of the problem in the thread.

Dirk Diggler · 5 Nov 2017 at 17:33

chroniclard said:
Its entirely relevant to some of the comments/misunderstanding of the problem in the thread.

The point being made by most is that a one off advance fuelled by a misread signal is not sexual harassment. That's practically the opposite of the little scenario that you posted.

V F · 5 Nov 2017 at 18:32

TJM said:
That's sort of the point. Reporting him could have wrecked her career so he knew he could get away with it trying it on at a working lunch.

This wasn't a social occasion. Journalists and politicians spend time together because having contacts is mutually beneficial and women should be able to work in those roles without having to fend off old gits.

If a man is really so emotionally brain dead that he has absolutely no idea whether his advances on a woman during the working day would be welcome or not, maybe he should err on the side of caution.

Speaking of journalists, where is their private lives in this matter? I find it hard to believe they're all squeaky clean and the things they get upto for stories and whatnot while they crucify others. Including those senior roles on news channels.

LabR@t · 5 Nov 2017 at 19:53

Sooner we get sex robots, the better!