#MeToo - is it just different for men and women?

mmj_uk · 7 Nov 2017 at 19:25

Married Welsh Labour politician 'takes his own life' days after being suspended by party over 'shocking' sex claims by three different women - as his family says it is 'devastated beyond words'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5058193/Labour-politician-suspended-sex-allegations-dead.html

This is totally unexpected under the current circumstances, it's quite frankly terrifying how allegations without any burden of proof are being allowed to smear people and lead to them to losing the careers they've worked their entire lives for. He may well be guilty of serious offences BUT it should be for a COURT OF LAW to decide that. INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

dowie · 7 Nov 2017 at 19:36

mmj_uk said:
This is totally unexpected under the current circumstances, it's quite frankly terrifying how allegations without any burden of proof are being allowed to smear people and lead to them to losing the careers they've worked their entire lives for. He may well be guilty of serious offences BUT it should be for a COURT OF LAW to decide that. INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

What allegations? What smears?

Why should it be for a court of law to decide? You don't even know if the allegations even relate to something criminal as you don't know what the allegations are.

The press have simply reported that he was no longer in his position as a result of these unspecified allegations and then later that he'd died.

Vonhelmet · 7 Nov 2017 at 20:09

Malevolence said:
Apparently, according to one of the women at work today, offering to buy a woman a drink in a bar is now sexist. And any bloke who does so should be reported to the police because they might be trying to get her drunk to take advantage. These deluded harridans are getting worse by the ******* minute.

Thankfully the majority of other girls in the place thought she was bat **** insane.

Shock as there's a spectrum of opinions with nutters at either end and a majority of normal people in the middle.

NewGamer11 · 7 Nov 2017 at 21:15

dowie said:
What allegations? What smears?

Why should it be for a court of law to decide? You don't even know if the allegations even relate to something criminal as you don't know what the allegations are.

The press have simply reported that he was no longer in his position as a result of these unspecified allegations and then later that he'd died.

The allegations are in relation to his behaviour towards women (5th paragraph): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41906961

Yes, we don’t know exactly what the allegations are.

Anonymity for people accused of career destroying allegations should be the norm until their guilt is proven.

dowie · 7 Nov 2017 at 21:28

NewGamer11 said:
The allegations are in relation to his behaviour towards women (5th paragraph): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41906961

Yes, we don’t know exactly what the allegations are.

Anonymity for people accused of career destroying allegations should be the norm until their guilt is proven.

again we don't even know if this has anything to do with criminal behaviour - he could be guilty of no offences and still have grounds to be sacked

it isn't exactly uncommon for someone to be suspended if they face serious allegations at work (especially from 3 independent individuals) pending the outcome of an investigation

he was in a public position - a welsh minister - this is going to be reported on - this isn't career destroying if the investigation then exonerates him

NewGamer11 · 7 Nov 2017 at 21:43

dowie said:
again we don't even know if this has anything to do with criminal behaviour

I didn’t say it did.

dowie · 7 Nov 2017 at 21:49

NewGamer11 said:
I didn’t say it did.

OK so do you think that people shouldn't be allowed to be suspended when serious allegations are made about them?

People get sacked/suspended from jobs all the time, it doesn't always require a criminal trial!

NewGamer11 · 7 Nov 2017 at 21:52

I’m not sure why you’re getting the impression that I disagree with any of what you say in post #307?

dowie · 7 Nov 2017 at 22:19

NewGamer11 said:
I’m not sure why you’re getting the impression that I disagree with any of what you say in post #307?

Well I'm a bit unsure of your position - what do you mean by this?

NewGamer11 said:
Anonymity for people accused of career destroying allegations should be the norm until their guilt is proven.

If you're happy for them to be suspended then what form does that anonymity take? Would you seek to bar the press from reporting on it? Would it simply be the reasons that would be prevented from being reported - I mean should they just have reported that he was suspended but not mentioned that it was in relation to allegations being made by women? I'd suspect in the latter case that this would't have made much difference here.

ci_newman · 8 Nov 2017 at 09:13

NewGamer11 said:
The allegations are in relation to his behaviour towards women (5th paragraph): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41906961

Yes, we don’t know exactly what the allegations are.

Anonymity for people accused of career destroying allegations should be the norm until their guilt is proven.

I agree with you to an extent, but on the other side of the coin if allegations against people like Weinstein and Saville had not been made public then the vast numbers of people involved would never had the courage to come forward and speak about it too. The line is so grey it can barely be seen...

Sasahara · 11 Nov 2017 at 21:14

Rebel Wilson has joined the club now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41955113

I was believing her up until she said.

I bolted out of there immediately

Ayahuasca · 11 Nov 2017 at 21:34

That really is one desperate human trying it on with her, her comedy value alone is repulsive enough.

[FnG]magnolia · 11 Nov 2017 at 21:43

Ayahuasca said:
That really is one desperate human trying it on with her, her comedy value alone is repulsive enough.

I don't know if this was the tone you were going for but it doesn't read well.

Ayahuasca · 11 Nov 2017 at 21:49

[FnG]magnolia said:
I don't know if this was the tone you were going for but it doesn't read well.

Oh you mean different to that tone most of the roles she takes on revolve around? Shame on me.

[FnG]magnolia · 11 Nov 2017 at 22:07

Ayahuasca said:
Oh you mean different to that tone most of the roles she takes on revolve around? Shame on me.

No, I meant your tone. I think I said that.

Ayahuasca · 11 Nov 2017 at 22:15

[FnG]magnolia said:
No, I meant your tone. I think I said that.

Well observed and another insightful post from yours truly.

V F · 12 Nov 2017 at 04:11

Sasahara said:
Rebel Wilson has joined the club now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41955113

I was believing her up until she said.

So is Goose from Top Gun.

Vonhelmet · 12 Nov 2017 at 07:13

Ayahuasca said:
That really is one desperate human trying it on with her, her comedy value alone is repulsive enough.

It's cute that you think your opinions on whether she's attractive are relevant.

Malevolence · 12 Nov 2017 at 07:36

Vonhelmet said:
It's cute that you think your opinions on whether she's attractive are relevant.

Is it not very stressful going through life always having to be so 'right-on' and 'politically correct' all the time?

Narj · 12 Nov 2017 at 09:01

Malevolence said:
Is it not very stressful going through life always having to be so 'right-on' and 'politically correct' all the time?

Please remember to check your privilege before posting.

Yours sincerely,

Thought Police