#MeToo - is it just different for men and women?

[Ayahuasca]

It's weird how some people can't understand or even appreciate the perspective of others who don't have the same opinions. Very strange.

I can understand it perfectly fine but I think most of it just comes down to having one or two bad experiences or being born with undesirable genetics.

If I was butt ugly or all my relationships with women had failed miserably I probably wouldn’t want to commit either. I wouldn’t however look at marriage statistics and what not and think well it’s inevitable it’s going to fail because of course it’s going to with that mindset.

 

[hornetstinger]

I can understand it perfectly fine but I think most of it just comes down to having one or two bad experiences or being born with undesirable genetics.

If I was butt ugly or all my relationships with women had failed miserably I probably wouldn’t want to commit either. I wouldn’t however look at marriage statistics and what not and think well it’s inevitable it’s going to fail because of course it’s going to with that mindset.

I wouldn't want to have kids or get married. Looks has nothing to do with it. Don't want to be tied down, or have responsbilities with kids.

 

[Nasher]

I can understand it perfectly fine but I think most of it just comes down to having one or two bad experiences or being born with undesirable genetics.

If I was butt ugly or all my relationships with women had failed miserably I probably wouldn’t want to commit either. I wouldn’t however look at marriage statistics and what not and think well it’s inevitable it’s going to fail because of course it’s going to with that mindset.

So you just assume there's something wrong with them or they are ugly? I can tell you 100% that isn't the case. A lot of these guys sleep around like crazy, they just don't want any attachment or the risks that come with it.

 

[Hades]

I can understand it perfectly fine but I think most of it just comes down to having one or two bad experiences or being born with undesirable genetics.

If I was butt ugly or all my relationships with women had failed miserably I probably wouldn’t want to commit either. I wouldn’t however look at marriage statistics and what not and think well it’s inevitable it’s going to fail because of course it’s going to with that mindset.

Then, in my opinion, you don't actually understand it despite saying you do. It's not (all) to do with looks, being ugly or failed relationships.

Your second paragraph is closer where you refer to statistics. Given those statistics then why would a young man (or young woman for that matter) want to risk a long term relationship?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Some of them seem to care a great deal as they're all over Reddit trying to reaffirm their choice in life and others.

Exactly what I was going to say.

 

[Ayahuasca]

So you just assume there's something wrong with them or they are ugly? I can tell you 100% that isn't the case. A lot of these guys sleep around like crazy, they just don't want any attachment or the risks that come with it.

I mean I’ve made assumptions myself but how exactly do you know many of them sleep around often?

 

[Angilion]

I think it's a sensible statement to make. He supports the intentions of the #MeToo movement (encouraging more victims of sexual harassment to come forward), but not the methods in which it's being applied (trial by social media).

There's no distinction. The intentions of the metoo movement are the methods - it is explicit in its demand that men (and only men) are presumed guilty. That is a key part of what it's for. In a wider sense, it is obviously intended to strengthen the idea that a person's sex is their identity, to divide "the sexes" (seen as group entities) as much as possible and to make as many places as possible hostile environments for men. Why else would it be targetting only men, demanding that any accusation be treated as proof of guilt (a typical lynch mob mentality) and making it clear that no man is safe, ever, anywhere, regardless of what he does or doesn't do or say or even how powerful he is? "30 years ago I overheard a private conversation in which a man said something sexual to someone else" being enough to ruin his life is not "encouraging more victims of sexual harassment to come forward". It wouldn't be even if it wasn't an extremely sexist movement driven by misandry...but it's that too.

 

[Angilion]

The number of MGTOW is minuscule and many of them saying they are so will eventually give in.

It’s like the strong independent women who don’t need no man, they’re full of it and that insecure of themselves that they tar everyone else with the same brush.

That's true, but there is also a less extreme version that's a very sensible response to the neo-puritanism and antimale sexism that's so fashionable and powerful nowadays. Never, ever, be alone with a woman in the workplace. No private meetings, no networking over a drink or a meal, not in any circumstances. Any man in any senior position should follow that principle because the risk to him is far too high if he doesn't.

An article on the subject. It blames (a) religion and (b) men because they're both safe targets...but it's men being targets that's the main reason.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/pences-gender-segregated-dinners/521286/

 

[Angilion]

It may well sound like that to you. But I doubt that's the actual reason for many (not all) who chooses MGTOW. In fact that's one of the points about it. They aren't trying to convince anyone and don't care about other people's opinion of them. They are simply not playing the game and instead choose to go their own way.

I'm sure they won't lose any sleep over you assuming they are single because they can't be with women, rather than choosing to be single. Because your opinion isn't important to them. That's the point; they have chosen to go their own way. They don't care. They can see it for what it is (in their eyes).

But they're making a thing of it. They have an acronym. They talk about it. So they can't be not caring about it.

As a counter-example, consider me. I've been single for quite a while now, something like 15 years, maybe 20. It suits me. When I was younger I conformed to the norm and sought a relationship. When I became older and more confident in myself, I partly shed the need to conform so I gained more freedom to arrange my life to suit myself. But what I don't do is go online and talk about it, give it a name, promote it. I treat it as something personal, not something political. It's my choice for me, not something I advocate for other people.

 

[Hades]

But they're making a thing of it. They have an acronym. They talk about it. So they can't be not caring about it.

Presumably because people are social animals that seek out like minded others. I guess they want to share their thoughts and experiences with others like them (and others not like them). That's not necessarily the same as trying to convince people (but no doubt some do).

I'm not sure why it's so hard to let other people just get on with their lives in the way they see fit. I do find it quite strange that people mock MGTOW. Surely men all should love MGTOW because it means fewer men competing for long term relationships with their women. Isn't less competition a good thing for non-MGTOWs? So just let them have their own corner of the internet and leave then to it. Don't seek out their forums if you don't want to.

I do find it funny that so many people really don't like others choices in life. I'd love to hear a psychologists viewpoint on that. My own thought is that we dislike non-typical views because it makes us question our own decisions and whether we took the right approach to life or wasted it. We're too scared that we made a mistake so don't want others to take a different route. Choosing the same route validates own own decisions.

 

[413x]

I'd ppersonally rather go it alone than have kids. Which is what most women want. I'm very picky too. I don't want some trophy gf who like stunning but it's boring or doesn't share same interests as me. That leaves me with 'who's left to date'
I don't blame people wanting to stay single.
So many relationships end in a messy divorce, or worse, miserable people waste years staying together. Sometimes longer if they have kids.

 

[VincentHanna]

Surely men all should love MGTOW because it means fewer men competing for long term relationships with their women. Isn't less competition a good thing for non-MGTOWs?

I've never once thought of dating/commitment as a "competition" with other men

So just let them have their own corner of the internet and leave then to it. Don't seek out their forums if you don't want to.

I didn't, yesterday in this thread was the first time I've ever heard the term. I imagine they are all talking to each other about how "Alpha" they all are and how men in longterm relationships are all "*****"

I do find it funny that so many people really don't like others choices in life. I'd love to hear a psychologists viewpoint on that. My own thought is that we dislike non-typical views because it makes us question our own decisions and whether we took the right approach to life or wasted it. We're too scared that we made a mistake so don't want others to take a different route. Choosing the same route validates own own decisions.

Live and let live, but I personally think they are just fooling themselves/each other.

You don't have to be in a relationship where you 100% share common interests, but it's good to have some

Also to the poster above, why does a "stunner" have to be boring or not share your interests? I'd argue it's mainly personality not looks in the medium to long term that keep relationships going as everyone is going to lose their looks at some point anyway but you make it sound like a binary choice between ugly interesting people or beautiful shallow people.

 

[Reeve]

Presumably because people are social animals that seek out like minded others. I guess they want to share their thoughts and experiences with others like them (and others not like them). That's not necessarily the same as trying to convince people (but no doubt some do).

I'm not sure why it's so hard to let other people just get on with their lives in the way they see fit. I do find it quite strange that people mock MGTOW. Surely men all should love MGTOW because it means fewer men competing for long term relationships with their women. Isn't less competition a good thing for non-MGTOWs? So just let them have their own corner of the internet and leave then to it. Don't seek out their forums if you don't want to.

I do find it funny that so many people really don't like others choices in life. I'd love to hear a psychologists viewpoint on that. My own thought is that we dislike non-typical views because it makes us question our own decisions and whether we took the right approach to life or wasted it. We're too scared that we made a mistake so don't want others to take a different route. Choosing the same route validates own own decisions.

Some of these men probably are making the wrong choice, a man coming to that conclusion in his 30's i can definintely understand because he has the life experience to make that call. I've seen a lot of people in youtube comments that are barely out of their teens and allign with this MGTOW philosophy and some of these folks have only had one bad experience in their life and they've got it into their head that shunning traditional relationships is a good thing, probably because all they read about are other peoples experiences with the same mindset.

I do find it a bit cringey that they want to recruit other people into the movement even if its just a minority that do this, it's probably due to the self-validation you mention. I'm of the same opinion as Angillion that its a personal choice and there is no need to promote it.

Like you say though, its less less competition for everyone else

 

[Nasher]

That's true, but there is also a less extreme version that's a very sensible response to the neo-puritanism and antimale sexism that's so fashionable and powerful nowadays. Never, ever, be alone with a woman in the workplace. No private meetings, no networking over a drink or a meal, not in any circumstances. Any man in any senior position should follow that principle because the risk to him is far too high if he doesn't.

An article on the subject. It blames (a) religion and (b) men because they're both safe targets...but it's men being targets that's the main reason.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/pences-gender-segregated-dinners/521286/

It's all part of the same philosophy really. It only exists because the laws are broken and assume the men to be guilty.

The kids in their teens who are signing up to it is out of fear, not experience. They see their Dads, friends, etc getting ruined in a breakup after the women just decides to leave one day and take everything with them.

 

[VincentHanna]

I don't buy that.

[Male] Teenagers are horny buggers who don't want commitment anyway. They just want to shag anything that moves. I remember being one.

 

[413x]

I don't buy that.

[Male] Teenagers are horny buggers who don't want commitment anyway. They just want to shag anything that moves. I remember being one.

Not everyone is the same.
People in general find it very hard to imagine others as different to themselves or people they know.

You can't blame people for being wary.
Especially when you become aware that a relationship can just end any time. If one party simply changs their mind the other is going to be hurt. Add kids money and housing in and it's common for one party to essentially loose the kids, house and wealth.

I don't know the figures for divorce rates etc but it makes the news, you see it in real life, and you see the people still in miserable relationships. It's easy to understand why people assess the risk and some decide its not worth it.

Then you have to deal with the flip side of loneliness.

I know I want to be in a relationship. Especially as I don't care much about career status and money. But I also know I absolutely don't kids. So I know I have to find someone of a similar view as there is no compromise. And the pool of people is small. Added to that I have no interest in playing the field it makes relationships important.

But I can completely see why if you don' w that relationship, don't want kids, care about career and money that a relationship is not great. It often hinders your career.

 

[francky]

All I'm going to say on this subject without reading all the various comments, is I feel sorry for men that fall into the MGTOW trap and the women that fall into the modern Feminist trap......for me, they are much of the same thing on opposite ends of the spectrum.....designed to divide the sexes, with a degree of hatred towards each other.....ruining the traditional family, marriage and raising of children with a father and mother.

Men distrust women now, thinking they will take them for all they have and women hate men thinking they are all sex mad bigots and that women no longer need a man......its a sorry state of affairs and will leave many people sad and lonely...perpetuated by crazy far left wing idiots on both sides.

 

[VincentHanna]

You are right about opposite ends of the spectrum, but I'd argue that the men who subscribe to this tend to be crazy right wing types

 

[TallPaul1878]

Divide and conquer tactics. Keep the working classes at each others throats.

 

[francky]

You are right about opposite ends of the spectrum, but I'd argue that the men who subscribe to this tend to be crazy right wing types

Yeah you are probably right....I dont follow the movement at all, but its all quite sad really where our culture is headed.