#MeToo - is it just different for men and women?

jpaul said:
Thought this is probably more deserved of #metoo attention
www.euronews.com

Why are new cars designed and tested with men in mind?

Women are far more likely to be severely injured or die in a frontal crash than men. The way we test car safety may have something to do with it.
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com

The most commonly used crash test dummy has the same dimensions and mass as an average adult male from the 1970s. So, why does it matter? Surely the structure of male and female bodies is sufficiently similar to not affect the outcome of safety tests?​
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Women are not scaled-down men and they have different physical characteristics, such as height, weight, bone density, and muscle mass. Because cars are designed for, and tested by, models representing the "average male," the results from these tests do not accurately predict the safety risks for female occupants in a crash.​
Research shows that women are 73 per cent more likely to be severely injured or die in a frontal crash than men and three times as likely to experience whiplash injuries.​
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As already pointed out by others the difference between male and female injuries may not be soley attributable to vehicles as we already know women are more prime to getting injured in other circumstances for example in sports

They're also more at risk for injuries like ankle sprains, stress fractures, (some research suggests women may be up to three times more likely to develop stress fractures than men), shoulder problems and even concussions. Much of this boils down to biology, in this case the female anatomy.
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There's also thr issue that men tend to drive slightly further than women and do more of the 'risky' driving that isn't in their local area, with that local driving often down at slower average road speeds.

Though a mixture of these factors and because men are more likely to engage in more dangerous driving behaviors they dominate in the more serious collisions categories where injuries/ deaths are more likely.

I would imagine that there's always going to be some trade of between the sexes and that making a car 'safer' for the average female may make it less 'safe' for the average male.
After all theres only so much adjustement that can practically be made available in a car.

An answer could be 'womens' cars and 'mens' cars but I dount that would go down well with some of the tabula rasa lot.
 
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Caracus2k said:
As already pointed out by others the difference between male and female injuries may not be soley attributable to vehicles as we already know women are more prime to getting injured in other circumstances for example in sports



There's also thr issue that men tend to drive slightly further than women and do more of the 'risky' driving that isn't in their local area, with that local driving often down at slower average road speeds.

Though a mixture of these factors and because men are more likely to engage in more dangerous driving behaviors they dominate in the more serious collisions categories where injuries/ deaths are more likely.

I would imagine that there's always going to be some trade of between the sexes and that making a car 'safer' for the average female may make it less 'safe' for the average male.
After all theres only so much adjustement that can practically be made available in a car.

An answer could be 'womens' cars and 'mens' cars but I dount that would go down well with some of the tabula rasa lot.
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I suspect that any changes would be relatively simple once they started to use them across the board (remember how pretty much every safety feature started out as an extra), and likely be of benefit to smaller men and children as well.

IIRC one of the suggested changes I saw was basically more variability in the seat belts* so it could be better positioned for women, whilst previous changes such as the modern adjustable headrest design (including the current internal layout) were pretty trivial to make.


*Effectively have the existing adjuster drop lower was a key one from memory.
 
jpaul said:
I was referring to the braveheart gesture when they showed their backsides , as being similar to his grab,
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What is your evidence for "ancient man" doing this? Which ancient men? What culture? When? It probably happened in some places and some times, but a propaganda film of lies made up a couple of decades ago isn't evidence that it was a universal custom thousands of years ago.

For ancient gestures of defiance, I suggest Sparta. They made an art of it. They could (and did) make pretty hairdressing a defiant gesture. Or a single word. For the funniest one (which is apocryphal rather than well attested and documented, but it's so glorious I hope it's true), the reply of the Cossacks to a demand from an emperor that they surrender. A specific group of Cossacks...Zaro...bah, can't remember it so I'll look it up...Zaporozhian Cossacks, replying to Sultan Mehmed IV of the Ottoman empire. Allegedly. Or, more recently, Tito's letter to Stalin on the subject of assassination.

jpaul said:
the archers from the middle ages had their (I've got my) two finger gesture too,
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Another myth. There's no evidence of French military cutting those two fingers (or any other fingers) off of captured English or Welsh archers. Cutting their throats, sometimes, but not their fingers. Usually they were held for ransom or prisoner exchange. Or killed. The two finger gesture has nothing to do with this thing that never happened anyway. The most likely origin is that it signifies horns, which (for some reason, I forget what) signified a man whose wife was having sex with someone else. But in practice it was simply an insulting gesture, a meaning in itself.

jpaul said:
I was wondering what boudica's gesture might have been. ... symbols of victory/defiance
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The screams of her many victims. The shock and horror of the people who found the remains. The smell of burning people. Possibly the sacrifice of people to the gods, but that one is speculative. The other ones aren't.

If you want a Briton from that period of time as a hero of defiance of the invasion, I suggest Caractacus. They were much more successful and far less of a mass murdering war criminal.
 
seems pay is their reason to strike, does seem quite disproportionate
The minimum salary for the women’s league is 16,000 euros ($17,400) before taxes, compared to the 182,000 euros ($197,000) guaranteed for men in La Liga.

Of 334 female players, 80 players made under 20,000 ($21,400) euros a year, while the average salary was around 40,000 euros ($42,800), according to the league
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however advertisers need to decide to invest

Spanish champions, FC Barcelona Femení, are the leading women's soccer team in Deloitte's Money League, generating revenue of €7.7 million ($8.3 million) during the 2021/22 season. They finished ahead of Manchester United, Manchester City and Paris Saint-Germain.

vs mens man united revenue $800M, inc sponsor teamviewer €55 million/5years

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Angilion said:
What is your evidence for "ancient man" doing this? Which ancient men? What culture? When? It probably happened in some places and some times, but a propaganda film of lies made up a couple of decades ago isn't evidence that it was a universal custom thousands of years ago.

For ancient gestures of defiance, I suggest Sparta. They made an art of it. They could (and did) make pretty hairdressing a defiant gesture. Or a single word. For the funniest one (which is apocryphal rather than well attested and documented, but it's so glorious I hope it's true), the reply of the Cossacks to a demand from an emperor that they surrender. A specific group of Cossacks...Zaro...bah, can't remember it so I'll look it up...Zaporozhian Cossacks, replying to Sultan Mehmed IV of the Ottoman empire. Allegedly. Or, more recently, Tito's letter to Stalin on the subject of assassination.
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There is a brilliant example of defiance noted by Roger Crowley in his book "Conquerors".

The Portugese captain received a lengthy letter from the Indian sultan in very flowery diplomatic language. It said something like "...you have 1,000 men and I have 20,000. You may wish to discontinue your incursions..."

The Portugese captain replied with little more than "You should prepare many graves. I am coming for you."

And he did.
 
BowdonUK said:
The women’s football league might end up like the WNBA in the US, and be subsidised from the male game.

Advertisers won't invest big in a sport not many people watch.
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I think it will likely lead to this as the arguments get stronger for more 'equal' pay but the advertisers wont pay it until much more viewership is achieved so it'll have to come from the money earnt by the mens teams, where else will the money come from?

The demand for just men to just automatically be expected to show the same support the womans game is crazy also
 
just takes some of the car manufacturers bmw or merc, who have many female customers, and already target advertising towards them, to divert funds in that direction -

Despite wimbledon offering equal prize money (not sure if they all do) the men effectively took a cut(no raise) to support that.
 
tombrr said:
The demand for just men to just automatically be expected to show the same support the womans game is crazy also
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It's a little silly that women expect men to show more support to a sport that women themselves aren't actively supporting..... somehow the lack of support is men's fault? :confused:

Before anyone shouts up the female viewership for the last World Cup, that was an anomaly compared to local women's football support.

Should the crest of women's support continue into local support post WC, I'm happy to change my view.


jpaul said:
Despite wimbledon offering equal prize money (not sure if they all do) the men effectively took a cut(no raise) to support that.
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Yeah I don't get that.

Men's Wimbledon final is best of 5 sets
Women's Wimbledon final is best of 3 sets

I thought we were all about equal pay? Equal pay meaning being paid the same for the same work?
 
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They need to view the men's and women's game as a single entity for sponsorship deals. Sponsors shouldn't get to sponsor the men's game or the women's game, they just sponsor a club or a tournament (even tho the men's and women's tournaments are not concurrent like Wimbledon, the men's and women's Euros and World Cup should be a single package for sponsorship purposes).

For tournaments, the money gets split 50/50 between the men's and women's games. There's nowhere near the same amount of money involved as there is in club football, so a 50/50 split isn't or shouldn't be that controversial. Sure the women's game doesn't generate as much interest at this time, but I don't really see that as a big deal. It could change in future.
 
tombrr said:
The demand for just men to just automatically be expected to show the same support the womans game is crazy also
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I'm not the slightest bit interested in the women's game. But I'm happy for the women's game to be on a more equal footing with the men's game.

Let's give it every chance to take off and see if it does or not.
 
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