More London violence.

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dowie said:
OK can you give me an example of a falsifiable claim from spiral dynamics?
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This is turning into strawman argument.

Again this is not a mathematically equation to a problem. I don't know what your argument is to be frank, that we should not try to work out ideas and concepts about human evolution?

falsifiable claim? Can you prove what NASA says is false? Can you prove if a history lesson is inaccurate or there was a mistake? I mean who knows really what happened.

Your problem is you seem to be thinking of problems in black or white, true or false, reality is a paradox my friend. Learn to think in 50 shades of grey.

Let me put you in instant paradox loop:

"This statement is false".

Or

"Is reality happening in the brain or is the brain inside reality? Because if i open my skull I an see my brain in the mirror which is inside reality, yet I percieve everything inside my brain! so which is it, is reality happening in my brain or outside my brain!".

Spiral dynamics is not a fact book, it's a tool, to add to your arsenal of wisdom. If you read the book you'd probably won't even argue about it anymore.
 
VincentHanna said:
Are we back to the "Black people are more stabby, it must be the colour of their skin" argument?
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it is unbelievable...the forum should be ashamed of this thread. of course the mouth breathers will claim this is 'virtue signalling' or 'ignoring facts coz PC' etc etc when in actuality they should probably just go join Stormfront...
 
I'm just going to drop this here, for any mind's who have the eyes and ears to learn.

Most people won't watch this, but for the few, its one of the ultimate truths available to mankind.

If you can watch this with an open mind a beautiful journey will probably start for you.

If you're feeling Depressed or Negative about life I will definately urge you to watch this with an open mind, reserve all judgement for now so you're not auto-denying everything subconsciously.

And I hope you realise I'm not doing any of this to my benefit, I'm just trying to open some minds, because frankly there is a lot of closed mindedness, and inability to see different perspectives, and addiction to negativity.

 
Nasher said:
Except when they break in to some random old lady's house and stab them too.
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I'd argue that's a crime of desperation driven by poverty and drug addiction, I don't think black people are more likely to do that than white people. I think young black people are more likely to commit a violent crime against another young black person, than a young white person is to commit a violent crime against another young white person. I wonder if racism against black people by other black people is a factor, in the same way I see women bully other women in the work place, yet that bullying doesn't tend to extend to men as easily funnily enough.

blazed said:
I'm just going to drop this here, for any mind's who have the eyes and ears to learn.

Most people won't watch this, but for the few, its one of the ultimate truths available to mankind.

If you can watch this with an open mind a beautiful journey will probably start for you.

If you're feeling Depressed or Negative about life I will definately urge you to watch this with an open mind, reserve all judgement for now so you're not auto-denying everything subconsciously.

And I hope you realise I'm not doing any of this to my benefit, I'm just trying to open some minds, because frankly there is a lot of closed mindedness, and inability to see different perspectives, and addiction to negativity.
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This isn't even relevant to the topic at hand. Also it's "definitely", as I was corrected on my spelling earlier, that one bugs me.
 
blazed said:
This is turning into strawman argument.

Again this is not a mathematically equation to a problem. I don't know what your argument is to be frank, that we should not try to work out ideas and concepts about human evolution?

falsifiable claim? Can you prove what NASA says is false? Can you prove if a history lesson is inaccurate or there was a mistake? I mean who knows really what happened.
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My argument is that is seems to be a load of "woo" like the other examples I mentioned in the initial reply to you, you've just strengthened this opinion now.

Yes NASA makes falsifiable claims.

(this is getting a bit off topic now tbh... but I'd suggest that you're the one being closed minded here as your position in support of this spiral dynamics stuff seems to be faith based)
 
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dowie said:
My argument is that is seems to be a load of "woo" like the other examples I mentioned in the initial reply to you, you've just strengthened this opinion now.

Yes NASA makes falsifiable claims.

(this is getting a bit off topic now tbh... but I'd suggest that you're the one being closed minded here as your position in support of this spiral dynamics stuff seems to be faith based)
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I'm sorry but people who "woo woo" and "poo poo" everything is by definition closed mindedness.

You are not getting it yet.

Basically it translate to "My Ego says your perspective is wrong!".

Famous neuroscientist Sam Harris Basically confirms the self is an illusion.


Double Slit experiment shows consciousness effects reality.


What is reality from science perspective


Sorry man, Science is catching up to what Ancient (woo woo) Wisdom has been saying thousands of years ago.
 
dowie said:
My argument is that is seems to be a load of "woo" like the other examples I mentioned in the initial reply to you, you've just strengthened this opinion now.

Yes NASA makes falsifiable claims.

(this is getting a bit off topic now tbh... but I'd suggest that you're the one being closed minded here as your position in support of this spiral dynamics stuff seems to be faith based)
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Also it doesn't look good that you arguing to blow something off with literally 0 knowledge on the topic please can you define closed minded in any other way?

closed-minded
[klohzd-mahyn-did]
See more synonyms for closed-minded on Thesaurus.com
adjective
  1. having a mind firmly unreceptive to new ideas or arguments: It's hard to argue with, much less convince, a closed-minded person.

Case closed. First step admit your closed minded, then second step is you can work on it.
 
I thought that the discovery of somitic cells, the ones that aren't subject to the Hayflick limit (like those of jellyfish and lobsters) effectively knocked into a cocked hat on any "truth" of the eternal cycle of death and rebirth.

Or is it just a metaphor?

If so, what's it a metaphor for?
 
I am going to open mind in a bit, down the pub with a few pints of Erdinger... Might cost a bit more then a few YouTube videos, but much more satisfying :) I went to college with one of these "open your mind" wallahs, he took too much hallucinogen and jumped off a motorway bridge :( I'm stickin' to the ale.
 
blazed said:
I'm sorry but people who "woo woo" and "poo poo" everything is by definition closed mindedness.

You are not getting it yet.

Basically it translate to "My Ego says your perspective is wrong!".
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Nothing to do with ego, you've adopted a faith based position so ironically it is you that is being closed minded. The people behind this spiral dynamics stuff that you unquestioningly believe in make some rather grand (and vague) claims. As a true believer you don't seem to worry about that, you'll keep on pushing it regardless... presumably you're on some higher plane of consciousness right?

Sorry man, Science is catching up to what Ancient (woo woo) Wisdom has been saying thousands of years ago.
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It isn't science, it's pseudo science. You don't seem to understand the difference.
 
Roar87 said:
Haha blazer posted the double slit experiment thinking it shows consciousness affects reality. Oh dear. Then calls other people closed minded. What an absolute cliché

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XP-DQW_1gI

I'm at work but I think this video explains correctly why that isn't the case. Feel free to make yourself a more open minded individual.
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1. I find it kind of disturbing how it gives your ego so much joy to prove me wrong. Look at it go! :D

2. It's called confirmation bias, it means you will search low and high to disprove me. It's like me saying "Water is the healthiest drink to drink" and you linking me study about over drinking water can give you Water intoxication. Then going back to drinking your coco cola lol, even though water is still the best to drink. You can argue the same about me but it wouldnt be true I've been studying this field 5 years now as a hobby and I was rather neutral.

3. Horrible video you linked 70% of it was them messing about talking crap.

4. If you think scientist dont sit and argue about what is wrong or right then you're in for a suprise, science only works on consesus I guess you dont know that. If you were the only human on the planet let's see how you do science when the other animals refuse to cooperate with you? So much good information is left out because its not been approved by science. Just so you know science research is done by who's paying and usually based on profits.

5. Neil deGrasse is paradigm locked into science and materialism.

6. I'm no scientist and I can knock Neil deGrasse theory out the window, Why is he talking about light and saying Consciousness has jack **** to do with it? What on EARTH IS HE ON ABOUT, how can you even KNOW or SEE light is bouncing around WITHOUT Consciousness. It's so flawed beyond logic, Conconciousness is ground 0. Consciousness before perception, consciousness is the MONITOR SCREEN before PIXEL and Light.

7. I'm quite aware of the Disproving arguements to Double slit experiment, none have made good arguements. The misconception with it is lol... people watch it and think their "EGOS" can change the reality, so for example you can consciously with effort change the reality of an outcome with your brain.... no no consciousness and ego and seperate things. Ego does the thinking and writing. Conscious just "is", it's "being" without thought, thats why if your mind goes silent for a while and you have no thoughts things around you still exists, you still exists you dont just vanish completely "I am".
 
dowie said:
Nothing to do with ego, you've adopted a faith based position so ironically it is you that is being closed minded. The people behind this spiral dynamics stuff that you unquestioningly believe in make some rather grand (and vague) claims. As a true believer you don't seem to worry about that, you'll keep on pushing it regardless... presumably you're on some higher plane of consciousness right?



It isn't science, it's pseudo science. You don't seem to understand the difference.
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I can't help you, there's too much information for you to get still.

You still stuck in science vs pseudo science, you've put all your faith into one basket (science). A doctor see's you at NHS GP gives you 5mins of their time or less and prescibes you a medicine, with little care for you, they dont know you, you can argue that's science. Yet you can go out on the internet and look for 1000's of ways to help yourself and try everything to find a cure for a disease or symptom, this is what a master would do, this is what a Leonardo Da Vinci mindset would do.

There was a documentary and in it a guy who had a skin issue/rash eczema, the doctors couldn't fix his problem he tried all the medications it didnt work, he only got better once he tried ayahuasca regularly.

The first person who said the world was round was ridiculed, all the masters of the time laughed, now you take it as common sense (and for granted).

Now they are arguing about space being flat or round, last laser tests shows no curvator. So some scientist are arguing that it means space is flat, whilst others argue its round but so large the laser's can't detect curavator.
 
You're using science to prove consciousness affects reality, then dismissing the same science you just used to prove your point when it's explained properly by an actual scientist.
 
blazed said:
2. It's called confirmation bias, it means you will search low and high to disprove me.
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I don't think he needed to search much for that one tbh... you put forth a dubious/widely disputed position.

So much good information is left out because its not been approved by science. Just so you know science research is done by who's paying and usually based on profits.
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What sort of things are you thinking of re: "good information" being left out because is isn't approved by science?

7. I'm quite aware of the Disproving arguements to Double slit experiment, none have made good arguements. The misconception with it is lol...
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No one is talking about disproving the double slit experiment? The issue is the interpretation of the measurement problem - you've put forth a rather old and widely disputed idea.

blazed said:
You still stuck in science vs pseudo science, you've put all your faith into one basket (science).
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Yes, when it comes to science vs pseudo science one is credible the other is worthless.

blazed said:
A doctor see's you at NHS GP gives you 5mins of their time or less and prescibes you a medicine, with little care for you, they dont know you, you can argue that's science. Yet you can go out on the internet and look for 1000's of ways to help yourself and try everything to find a cure for a disease or symptom, this is what a master would do, this is what a Leonardo Da Vinci mindset would do.

There was a documentary and in it a guy who had a skin issue/rash eczema, the doctors couldn't fix his problem he tried all the medications it didnt work, he only got better once he tried ayahuasca regularly.
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"Leonardo Da Vinci mindset" ???

and your example of this is a guy who took a traditional psychedelic brew and solved his skin rash issue?

You're seemingly unaware with the issues with personal anecdotes like that or why we have clinical trials for drugs. If it does as you claim then it should be able to be replicated and shown to perform better than a placebo. Currently you've simply chosen to believe in it based on an anecdote from a documentary, that is inherently closed minded.

edit - I googled your anecdote and found the guy who claims to have been cured with the traditional brew:

https://www.energytherapy.biz/2016/...sca-how-i-cured-my-eczema-and-healed-my-life/
"Mark Flaherty is a practising astrologer with clients in over 30 countries. He has studied with Dr Geoffrey Cornelius, former President of the Astrological Lodge of London, and Bob Mulligan of the Astrology Company, Florida. He is passionate about sharing this mystical art and its relevance to our daily lives."

what a surprise, a practitioner of woo... and the claim made on a website all about woo

(as mentioned in my previous post this is way off topic still as far as the thread is concerned - it might be better to make a new thread re: spiral dynamics etc.. if you want to carry on?)
 
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Roar87 said:
You're using science to prove consciousness affects reality, then dismissing the same science you just used to prove your point when it's explained properly by an actual scientist.
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Wasn't a good explanation, basically said light hits it and it changes position. Not sure what I’m supposed to do with that info, this a big topic that has puzzled many scientist for many years, so this explanation does nothing for me. Can you link me to a full on discussion with scientist where his idea has been approved if you're into such approvals?

What I'm saying to you is consciousness is the source, so regardless of whatever experiment, dream Neil deGrasse is telling me the dream sun exists! look it’s there its proven fact, when I wake up from my dream though, I realised Neil deGrasse was full of ****, it was all dream and the sun was never real.

Contemplate your death, vigorously, what’s it like to know that in the future the physical body will be dead, and there will be no you to refer to yourself, how can you possible know you ever existed if you don’t exist? What does real mean?
 
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