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New summer transfer thread
- Thread starter DanH84
- Start date
Heinze made himself a reject, it wasn't something created by the fans or Ferguson. He deliberately put himself into a position that would end his career with us. Regardless of how he played 3 seasons ago, he turned his back on us and was quickly sold to Real Madrid. It wouldn't have mattered if Ferguson wanted to keep him, he wouldn't have played for us.
BaZ87 said:
It kinda is the case though. Heinze was only in the team this season because Evra was injured. Heinze has not been the same player since his first season, Evra has surpassed him in the team. Heinze was unwilling to stay and fight for his place so he orchestrated an audacious move to Anfield. He was no longer seen as a first team player, Ferguson prefers Evra. So he can be labelled a reject to an extent.
Caporegime
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Linoge said:
yeah thats basically what i was saying.
How much did we buy him for originally?
Prefers Evra so much that he played him on the left wing untill Silvestre got injured. Nokkon and Loki both have said they would still play him as your left-back (loki said it even after whats gone on), like i said Heinze is a reject because Utd fans can't say that one of there first team players chose Liverpool ahead of them (and im sure it would be the same had the roles been reversed).Linoge said:
BaZ87 said:
No, ever since the start of last season Evra has been my first choice. When Heinze came back he was pretty much useless. He made the odd tackle here and there, but he gave the ball away far too much, and couldn't cross to save his life. He also lost whatever pace he once had. HE also became very clumsy (Milan's goal at Old Trafford, more Heinze's fault than Evra's imo).
Evra is being played LW due to the fact that Fergie doesn't want to throw Nani straight in, and he wants Giggs up top. When everyones fit Evra will be first choice left back, and that would have been the case even if we had Heinze (even if the Liverpool **** hadn't have happened).
Shamikebab said:
Around £7million I think.
BaZ87 said:
He was seeing how he fared in midfield, nothing permanent. Evra is like Riise in the sense that he is a better attacking player than defensive. However, regardless of Evra's shortcomings in defence, it's his ability going forward that impresses Ferguson the most and that's why he is practically guaranteed his left back spot when fit. Ferguson wants players to be able to attack from all positions, I don't think I've seen our squad being so adaptable in many positions.
My point is that Heinze wasn't a regular first teamer when he decided that Liverpool was his next destination. Ferguson has hinted that his agents have been pressing for a move for the last year and a half, most of which he wasn't even in our first team. His services were only needed through injuries to other players. I agree with you, it would be exactly the same if the situation was reversed between the clubs. I wouldn't necessarily call Heinze a reject but it makes me think why Liverpool were so interested in a player no longer deemed good enough for our first team. Benitez's reaction to the whole thing yesterday made me think that he had all his hopes in getting Heinze and didn't really have other players in mind in case it didn't go through. Liverpool were too confident of Heinze being allowed to move to Anfield.
Ok whateverRipper said:
But either way Fergie said he wanted him to stay, he was a fans favourite with you lot (and iirc he was getting heavily defended by Utd fans in the Milan game and they were blaming Evra, i'll have a look when search is back) and both Loki and Nokkon have said they would still play Heinze lb.
BaZ87 said:Ok whatever
But either way Fergie said he wanted him to stay, he was a fans favourite with you lot (and iirc he was getting heavily defended by Utd fans in the Milan game and they were blaming Evra, i'll have a look when search is back) and both Loki and Nokkon have said they would still play Heinze lb.
Ferguson said that because if he didn't it would undermine their case against the move Heinze wanted in the meeting with the Premier League. Their case revolved around putting the emphasis on Heinze wanting the move and not the club and that the club were willing to listen to any offers as long as they weren't clubs deemed as local competition.
If Ferguson had stated that he wanted rid of Heinze, the Premier League could have taken a different stance with the outcome, and possibly forced the move as the club wanted to sell him.
With the Milan game, I felt Heinze was being made the scapegoat when really Evra was out of sorts. If Heinze was back to his first year form, without a doubt, I'd have him ahead of Evra.
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I love all this not being good enough for you but good enough for Liverpool stuff. Regardless of what you say he was competeing with Evra for the lb spot and cover for your cb's, you've not brought anybody in for those positions so i would presume he would have been in the same position as last year. Now had he joined Liverpool he would have been in the exact same position and not definant of starting spot though had he been on the bench for a couple of games im sure Liverpool fans would have said similar things.Linoge said:
Fergie was saying that before Heinze even spoke to him, stating that it was the agents that wanted the move and not Heinze.Linoge said:
BaZ87 said:
Baz, you're not getting the point I'm making. I'm not saying because he was no longer good enough for our first team that he's good enough for yours. My point is that I don't understand why Benitez thought that. This has nothing to do with how us fans feel about it but more the reason why Benitez thought Heinze was good enough for Liverpool's team. I agree with you that he wouldn't have been first choice, which makes his excuse at wanting to leave us laughable at best. It was obviously about money.
Ferguson was willing to give Heinze a chance to explain himself, that the door was open. They hadn't spoke since the end of last season, so Ferguson had no real idea exactly how Heinze felt about the whole situation. I'm sure straight after the meeting, Ferguson was straight onto our lawyers because he obviously knew this would go the distance and involve the Premier League. Ferguson will not publically state that he wishes a player was gone from the club, in that way it covers him and it covers the club if the situation arises where a third party is needed to draw a conclusion to any given situation.
Chelsea agree deal for Belletti
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/6960495.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/6960495.stm
Benitez thought he was good enough for our squad, just as he is good enough for your squad.Linoge said:
I agree as soon as Fergie knew Heinze wanted to leave there was no going back but prior to that meeting im sure Fergie would have considered Heinze part of his plans.Linoge said:
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cymatty said:
has the dani alves deal fallen through then?
It would seem that way, Sevilla said last week that Chelsea's bid was well below what they were asking for him. I don't think its that bad news for Chelsea fans, Alves would have been a worry at rb.Shamikebab said:has the dani alves deal fallen through then?
Not happy with cymatty trying to steal my thunder though, i posted that ages ago
BaZ87 said:
Ferguson was aware of his desire to move away this summer and that's why Heinze captained the team in the F.A Cup final and the last few games of the season. What he couldn't and never expected was his agent getting a move to Liverpool. I don't think Heinze was in his long term plans but he had no reason to completely shut the door on him when there were no real offers for him at the time. In my 20 odd years of supporting Man Utd, no player has gotten the better of Ferguson. Ferguson always wins. He knows how to deal with a lot of given situations, although this summer he was presented a different one, he was confident of his and the club's position.
I'm disappointed with how it's ended with Heinze, like you said he was a fan favourite over his first season with us, a relatively unknown player to a lot of us, he proved that he was one of the best defenders in the league. His physical approach won him many fans, like most similar defenders do at their own clubs. The latter half of last season gave him what we all know now as a last real opportunity to prove himself again, as much as most of us wanted it to happen, he was a different player. Slower, more reckless, elbows flying, needless freekicks, getting skinned by wingers on a constant basis. The pace of Evra that we had grew accustomed to over the previous year was now highlighting Heinze's biggest weakness. Good enough for our squad? Yes. Good enough for yours? Yes. Good enough for either of our first teams? I'd say a big no.