North Korea

Rroff · 30 Aug 2017 at 14:57

Roar87 said:
Well considering he went to an English language school I doubt he didn't learn English or know it before going there. You are of course making excuses for a murderous Dictator who is happy to watch his country starve because of things that happened 70 years ago. He has access to the internet and Google translate, he has people around him who no doubt speak English, he is fully able to comprehend that America would have no interest in losing thousands of soldiers fighting a war in South East Asia against a country that wasn't trying to develop nuclear weapons.

One thing that is a bit of a wildcard though is how much living amongst that stuff has an impact - even with some exposure to the wider world living within that culture day to day probably causes some distortion - some people are more or less susceptible to it than others - look at religion where some people are completely convinced by some utterly crazy ideas despite having access to no shortage of material that objectively provides a counter-balance and others manage to interpret the same religion in more reasonable terms.

Sliver · 3 Sep 2017 at 05:32

6.3-magnitude earthquake was detected in North Korea just hours after Kim Jong Un reportedly inspected a “super explosive” hydrogen bomb the nation developed for its intercontinental ballistic missiles.
The U.S. Geological Survey detected the surface quake around 12:30 p.m. local time and classified it as an “explosion.”
South Korean officials believe the seismic activity was man-made and may have been the North’s sixth nuclear test since 2006, according to Yonhap News.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...-explosive-h-bomb-developed-article-1.3464448

Rroff · 3 Sep 2017 at 05:45

Bit bigger than their last one - that is potentially around 80kt device IIRC.

EDIT: I was misremembering 80kt devices were around 5.7-5.8 in other tests, ~6.5 was 1-1.2Mt tests - if NK has something even approaching the megatons they can put on a missile that would be pretty serious. Obviously a lot of dispute they actually have both that power and ability to successfully put it on a missile at the same time.

Name · 3 Sep 2017 at 09:13

They must be getting help from somewhere at the rate this is progressing.

I've noticed an increase lack of urgency regarding comment from the White House recently. They know there is absolutely nothing they can do, they can't even increase embargosand sanctions as China won't stand for it.

Sliver · 3 Sep 2017 at 09:20

North Korea says it has tested a powerful hydrogen bomb that can be loaded on to an intercontinental ballistic, in a move that is expected to ratchet up the pressure on Donald Trump to defuse the growing nuclear crisis on the Korean peninsula.
In an announcement carried on state TV, North Korea said the test, its sixth since 2006, had been a “complete success” and involved a “two-stage thermonuclear weapon” with “unprecedented” strength.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-confirmed-in-major-escalation-by-kim-jong-un

I don't know about you guys, but I'm a little concerned about this.

Efour · 3 Sep 2017 at 09:24

Don't care, totally out of my hands. American idiots Vs N. Korean idiots in power.

Literally nothing you can do.

Sliver · 3 Sep 2017 at 09:30

Efour said:
Don't care, totally out of my hands. American idiots Vs N. Korean idiots in power.

Literally nothing you can do.

True. We are fortunate as we live in a place (UK) which out of range from NK missiles, nuclear or otherwise.

DarrenM343 · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:01

Good for them I say. I take comfort in my own thoughts that I think nobody will be stupid enough to use them. I'm not convinced he's the nut job he's made out to be, probably propaganda. Trump doesn't seem completely with it anyway.
Regardless of the leader I'm sure there are many good North Koreans as there are Americans hence pre-emptive strikes should not be carried out.
Think for a moment. The USA built and used the first nuke. They recently demonstrated a super nuke in a show of force. We cannot blame any country for building them, for protection. What matters now is talk and building better relationships, making sure nobody has a reason to use them. The world needs to work with NK, help improve it.
Anyone firing nukes will be ending many innocent lives in both their own country and the country they're attacking. Basically, it'll be suicide hence why I think nobody would be stupid enough and we have to take that risk.

It's amazing that we have yet to find live elsewhere yet we are so flawed that we develop weapons to destroy ourselves, many times over. So sad. Why cant we just all get along on this small round planet of ours

.

BDEE · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:07

Efour said:
Don't care, totally out of my hands. American idiots Vs N. Korean idiots in power.

Literally nothing you can do.

We should all care though - The economic impact that a strike by either side will have around the entire globe is quite frightening. One nuke get's launched and there will be financial chaos in the markets and that affects us all in our daily lives - Right down to the costs of basic living.

Sliver · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:08

DarrenM343 said:
The world needs to work with NK, help improve it.

Have you been living in a cave for the last 60 years? NK won't sit down and talk seriously. All attempts at diplomacy have failed. They are a paranoid thanatocracy, they will not be reasoned with. War is ebbing ever closer.

DarrenM343 · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:20

Sliver said:
Have you been living in a cave for the last 60 years? NK won't sit down and talk seriously. All attempts at diplomacy have failed. They are a paranoid thanatocracy, they will not be reasoned with. War is ebbing ever closer.

Erm no, but what's your suggestion? Nuke them now, kill millions of innocent people? As long as we're alright?
For 60 years NK have not been in the position they now find themselves in. History is not necessarily a guide to the future. We need to keep trying to work with them, regardless of the past. THey now have the means to protect themselves and are more likely to be listened to. They could sit down with the other nuclear powers of the world,the position they were not in over the past.
If war comes, with use of Nukes, it goes to show how stupid we are as the human race.

XeNoN89 · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:23

DarrenM343 said:
Erm no, but what's your suggestion? Nuke them now, kill millions of innocent people? As long as we're alright?
For 60 years NK have not been in the position they now find themselves in. History is not necessarily a guide to the future. We need to keep trying to work with them, regardless of the past. THey now have the means to protect themselves and are more likely to be listened to. They could sit down with the other nuclear powers of the world,the position they were not in over the past.
If war comes, with use of Nukes, it goes to show how stupid we are as the human race.

I don't think anyone has suggested that somebody should nuke NK. I do however think they need to have all of their military and leadership taken out by conventional weapons though.

Sliver · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:25

DarrenM343 said:
Erm no, but what's your suggestion? Nuke them now, kill millions of innocent people?

No. Non nuclear military action, like seen in recent conflicts such as Iraq for example. If NK use nuclear weapons then a nuclear response is credible, but I firmly believe that NK would never use nuclear weapons in anger as even they know that outcome would be their demise.

Nasher · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:32

Sliver said:
No. Non nuclear military action, like seen in recent conflicts such as Iraq for example. If NK use nuclear weapons than a nuclear response is credible, but I firmly believe that NK would never use nuclear weapons in anger as even they know that outcome would be their demise.

I think they are far more likely than any other country to use them. Not just in response to an attack either.

The risk with not doing anything is one day they will have a huge stock pile and decide to just lunch them at their "enemies". They will certainly use them to bully smaller nations in the area.

Uther · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:38

do_ron_ron said:
Indeed. How many countries has NK invaded or destabilised. How many countries has America invaded or destabilised. America and South Korea hold military exercises every year close to the border. As an expert on NK said on the radio this morning, part of NK's stance is warning the US that invading will be painful. The original Nuclear non Proliferation Treaty limited nuclear weapons to five countries but since then Israel, India and Pakistan have nukes and not much is said about them. Also noted on the radio prog was that the border was the usual couple of civil servants arbitrarily drawing a line on the map separating these areas into countries. Like so many areas of the world this has led to complications and wars.

My thoughts too.

Sliver · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:39

Nasher said:
They will certainly use them to bully smaller nations in the area.

Exactly.

DarrenM343 · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:43

Sliver said:
No. Non nuclear military action, like seen in recent conflicts such as Iraq for example. If NK use nuclear weapons then a nuclear response is credible, but I firmly believe that NK would never use nuclear weapons in anger as even they know that outcome would be their demise.

But nuclear weapons are a deterrent of any klnd of action. Nobody wants to mess with the nuclear boys n girls. Convention weapon attack won't work IMO. THis is why NK and all other countries want nukes, hence why we need to all work together to help develop NK and other countries. I know it's a bit of a dream but that's the way we need to go.
Pity of course we can t just take out one person. I believe NK has great people who could thrive in a different environment, ie, with a different leadership. The reality of the people is different from what's portrayed to us in the media.
Pity also the people just cant rise up and overthrow. Many do know what the world outside NK is like so not fully brain washed by their own leadership.
USA used the first nuke when nobody else had them BTW so their use was not in defence/to defend against being attacked by the same weapons. If use of nukes is justified because the aggressor uses them, then where does one stop? If China wants an end to the war, do they then fire off nukes too? Nukes used on NK could have consequences to nearby countries too, radiation for one.

Azza · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:48

https://www.norsar.no/press/latest-...orea-on-3-september-2017-article1534-984.html

XeNoN89 · 3 Sep 2017 at 10:50

DarrenM343 said:
But nuclear weapons are a deterrent of any klnd of action. Nobody wants to mess with the nuclear boys n girls. Convention weapon attack won't work IMO. THis is why NK and all other countries want nukes, hence why we need to all work together to help develop NK and other countries. I know it's a bit of a dream but that's the way we need to go.
Pity of course we can t just take out one person. I believe NK has great people who could thrive in a different environment, ie, with a different leadership. The reality of the people is different from what's portrayed to us in the media.
Pity also the people just cant rise up and overthrow. Many do know what the world outside NK is like so not fully brain washed by their own leadership/

This is all China's fault. NK leadership should have been taken out YEARS ago and the Korean peninsula reunified. Look how prosperous SK is, millions of poor North Koreans would be so much better off if this had happened

DarrenM343 · 3 Sep 2017 at 11:04

XeNoN89 said:
This is all China's fault. NK leadership should have been taken out YEARS ago and the Korean peninsula reunified. Look how prosperous SK is, millions of poor North Koreans would be so much better off if this had happened

Hard to point fingers but can't argue with the conclusion

. Totally agree a unified Korea years ago would have been best for everyone.