Nurburgring - German Grand Prix 2009 - Race 9/17
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Permabanned
Aint that the truth:
If he can't see the car in front of him what on earth is he doing in F1
That was taken after the incident.
No, he did not swerve. Watch the in car video. Yes he did move over slightly. As can be seen from a tiny movement in steering wheel. There was no large swerve. This was then combined with a reasonable amount of under-steer. Forcing the front end even further out.
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Soldato
I think even Mark commented himself during the post race press conference that it was "not his style." I fully believe him when he said he wasnt aware of exactly where Rubens was untill he collided with him. It does bring the question though of if he knew that Rubens was somewhere around him was it really worth the risk to his own race too make a second move to the right? Still I suppose thats a large part of the game, you have got to be prepared to take risks. I was supprised that at no point during the race did the commentators pick up the dirty great mark on Rubens side pod from the collision though. Do I think Webber deserved a penalty? No not really, it was an aggresive move but at the end of the day thats racing. Webber gained nothing from the move and Rubens didnt exactly lose anything did he? The threat of a penalty certainly gave the race an exciting twist though and clever thinking from the RBR pitwall made it work very well. The only effect it had on Webbers race was that he didnt win by as much as he was going too
Hats off to him, very much a deserved win and no doubt a big boost to his confidence. Not too mention it was 2 less points for Vettel. I do hope that Hungary is going to be a hotter race weekend. Would be good to see just how far RBR have pulled infront of Brawn in conditions where the Brawn actually works to its full potential.
Schumacher swerved and hoped the other cars moved. Luckily for him the cars moved over. If they had done what rubens did and stood their ground an accident would happen.
Didn't MS run his own brother off the road on a race start IIRC?
The schumacher chop at the start happened so often I was amazed they let it go on. Deliberately aiming your car at another should not be allowed to happen.
When you watch the aerial camera of webber he cut over suddenly and he wasn't very smooth at all. He knew he was there, if he didn't why would he move to the inside of the track to take the oncoming right hander?
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Soldato
Rubens shouldn't have blamed his team and should have kept his mouth shut if he did not talk to his team before the interview.
Well done to MW, fully deserved - no one else was able to stay with him, and luckily enough for him he was the only person not to be seriously held up by a "slow" ferrari or McLaren
He deserved the drive through - it was definitely a significant barge, but even the penalty was never going to let anyone ahead of him (look at SV, he was 10s further back with the penalty, and after MW had backed off with 5 - 10 laps to go, that lead could easily have been 40+
Brawn got the tactics wrong without doubt imo, but best they could have hoped for was 2nd and that would have been very lucky indeed.
JB was unlucky to be severely held up for 20s (10 laps at 2 sec per) by Kovi , and then Rubens for a few laps that cost him the podium place for sure - Rubens just wasnt fast enough in his latter stints (and arguably even in the first stint to allow for the extra stop) , the 6 seconds he lost in the last stop didnt make that much of a difference in the end
He deserved the drive through - it was definitely a significant barge, but even the penalty was never going to let anyone ahead of him (look at SV, he was 10s further back with the penalty, and after MW had backed off with 5 - 10 laps to go, that lead could easily have been 40+
Brawn got the tactics wrong without doubt imo, but best they could have hoped for was 2nd and that would have been very lucky indeed.
JB was unlucky to be severely held up for 20s (10 laps at 2 sec per) by Kovi , and then Rubens for a few laps that cost him the podium place for sure - Rubens just wasnt fast enough in his latter stints (and arguably even in the first stint to allow for the extra stop) , the 6 seconds he lost in the last stop didnt make that much of a difference in the end
Soldato
Where do you lot reckon Hamilton could have finished if it wasn't for the first lap puncture? 
I reckon he could have definitely had a podium.
I reckon he could have definitely had a podium.
Where do you lot reckon Hamilton could have finished if it wasn't for the first lap puncture?
I reckon he could have definitely had a podium.
I dont think he would have beaten Vettel - but possibly competing for 3rd along with Rosberg and Button (after all between Massa and Button was about 5 - 6 seconds or so)
Soldato
We can't have it both ways - we want drivers to be passionate, emotional, human people rather than soul-less corporate shells spouting what the PR folks and sponsors want to hear. So occasionally we're going to hear them go off on one when it probably wasn't justified.
Rubens will sit down with the team, everyone will apologise and move on.
Soldato
he was on a straight, and how would understeer make the car swerve more? Especially on a straight....
Soldato
I understand what you are saying, but it is kinda stupid to start blaming your own team without knowing all the facts.
He should have attacked Webber verbally instead for his attack at the start
Soldato
I don't think his thought process at the time was at its best
He should have attacked Webber verbally instead for his attack at the start
Possibly, though there wasn't much intent behind Webber's move at the start. It was clumsy at best, but not malicious.
Soldato
I reckon he may have beaten Vettel. With KERS he would have been able to overtake the slower cars they got behind easier, and I'm pretty confident that if Lewis was anywhere near Vettel's pace he would have managed an overtake with some good KERS usage. Hamilton was ludicrously quick in the last sector in practise.
Either way I'm hoping Hamilton has a bit more luck next week. I want to see him dicing with Brawns and RedBulls
if hamilton didnt nick webbers wing and not get a puncture i reckon he would have got 2nd, the awsome start he had would have had him 1st or 2nd after the first corner.he was heavier than the brawns but doubt he would have matched webbers awsome pace.
I reckon he may have beaten Vettel. With KERS he would have been able to overtake the slower cars they got behind easier, and I'm pretty confident that if Lewis was anywhere near Vettel's pace he would have managed an overtake with some good KERS usage. Hamilton was ludicrously quick in the last sector in practise.
Either way I'm hoping Hamilton has a bit more luck next week. I want to see him dicing with Brawns and RedBulls
Even without the puncture he would have gone off at the 1st corner, and been swamped by the leading pack (at that point - after all it didnt last much longer as a pack) and that would have stalled his progress considerably
It was also quite interesting that once non kers cars managed to sneak past those with "boost" they could actually pull away quite easily (look at Button past Massa for instance, him and Kovi pulled away significantly to start with until Kovi started slowing down)
I personally think you got the last bit wrong I would love for McLaren to start mixing it up with Red Bulls (and the Brawn's to be shooting off into the distance) on the hotter tracks coming up - even though Valencia is imo the most boring track around, as long as Brawn win in Hungary and there I wont mind too much (and even with a great start it doesnt look like Rubens can keep up with JB over a race distance)
Yeah, I remember a different onboard view. must have been a different incident.
But it's still not an aggressive move. it wasn't a massive steering wheel movement. It is very unlikely webber could see him. But Barrichelo could. It was still a racing incident after watching the replays on the highlights feed.
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Soldato
I disagree on your first point, looking at the video of the start Hamilton was matching Rubens for breaking into the first corner (albeit with a wider line) but was unable to successfully turn in due to the damage at the rear, despite that he was in 4th/5th after the first corner and only dropped right back with being unable to take T2.
You say Massa wasn't unable to keep up with Button, Massa was also nowhere near as quick as Hamilton was showing the Mclaren could lap at.