one should never use wikipedia as a reference.
-
Competitor rules
Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.
Nvidia’s ace in the hole against AMD: Maxwell is the first GPU with full DirectX 12 support
- Thread starter Gregster
- Start date
one should never use wikipedia as a reference.
Soldato
I'm not reinforcing anything, you just don't really know what you're talking about. Liaising and occasional onsite visits are to be expected. Do you think PC developers have constant aid with AMD hardware, and play a huge roll when it comes to developing under the DX pipeline?
No, of course not. What is happening is you have this fantasy idea in your head that Microsoft's DirectX team are hugely reliant on AMD on the basis the unit contains AMD hardware. This is not how the software industry works. The relationship is not mutually beneficial. It's a fixed platform. It does not change.
Last edited:
Caporegime
I'm not the one implying that one particular Hardware vendor and MS are some-sort of bed buddies working together more than they are any other.
The nonsense here is that implication, and its not me or AMD making that implication.
What i'm doing is lying out reasons why it is in Microsoft interest to work with AMD as much as anyother, its actually imperative that they do if they want; A to make the XBONE more than the punching bag for Sony that it currently is; and B to make your own cited XBONE to PC synergy a reality.
And if thats what MS wanted all along, then why reject Mantle? DX12 has a lot in common with it now. coincidence?
Last edited:
Soldato
I know
.Of course they work with AMD, just not on anywhere near what you would appear to think (or be implying). A few posts back you were however - and still are - saying that MS declined Mantle.
What is the basis for this? At all. I doubt Microsoft had any intention of using Mantle at all. This all stems from slides getting lost in translation through marketing making the comparison to dedicated systems. I'm not sure how many different ways I can say there is no basis of truth in that at all.
Can't say any more than that.
Last edited:
Associate
I'm not a pro in this Dx12 stuff, but after reading the topic, i googled some, and found this:
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/directx-12-the-future-of-it-within-the-console-gaming-space-specifically-the-xb1.55487/page-39
"Typed UAV Loads was always capable in mantle with it's uniform buffer supporting full type conversions with R/W operations ...
Volume tiled resources is just partially resident textures in 3D and GCN does support 3D textures so support for VTR can be easily extended ...
Conservative rasterization can be performed in the geometry shader so there's no worries there ...
Raster ordered views is just a fancy way to rename Intel's pixelsync and the feature's name in OpenGL is Intel_fragment_shader_ordering which by the way GCN already supports so ROVs are already covered with GCN ..."
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/directx-12-the-future-of-it-within-the-console-gaming-space-specifically-the-xb1.55487/page-39
"Typed UAV Loads was always capable in mantle with it's uniform buffer supporting full type conversions with R/W operations ...
Volume tiled resources is just partially resident textures in 3D and GCN does support 3D textures so support for VTR can be easily extended ...
Conservative rasterization can be performed in the geometry shader so there's no worries there ...
Raster ordered views is just a fancy way to rename Intel's pixelsync and the feature's name in OpenGL is Intel_fragment_shader_ordering which by the way GCN already supports so ROVs are already covered with GCN ..."
You should have kept on reading, well at least the next page. https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1823113/ Some of the features can be emulated in software, but it makes them that slow as to be utterly pointless.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Feb 2011
- Posts
- 5,849
Ignore Layte, hes one of those people who a) doesnt like AMD and b) reads anything even remotely anti AMD on another site runs around telling everyone is must be gospel.
All this speculation is utterly pointless, DX12 is not available as of right now, when it is available we will have new AMD cards and new Nvidia card(s) in play, so until the cards AND Dx12 land any speculation of it right now is utterly utterly pointless.
Caporegime
You could apply that logic to most of the posters, you'd catch nearly all of them if you switch around AMD/Nvidia/Intel etc.
Soldato
Will my 670 get the speed buff is all I'm interested in, does anyone know if I will and others on similar cards and up. Nvidia said its dx12 supported which I don't mind about fancy things for better visuals just the part that makes dx12 games run a lot better when time comes. Tbh does anyone actually know what part of dx12 does that fancy speed increase out of the feature lists that's known?
Because the people over there do know what they are talking about. Note, even on the first point it's still not black and white.
"That said, that is still not sufficient in and of itself for tiled volumes. GCN may well support that, but we don't know that simply from the fact that is has page tables + 3D textures..."
Please, feel free to counter what I say. That's why we are here, on a discussion forum. Dismissing what people have to say just because you don't like the message (or have no ripost) is daft.
Last edited:
This MS Blog from a year ago deals specifically and only with the performance boosts that DX12 will bring to the table, very little is made of any hardware limitations for this aspect of DX12 in fact;
Clearly the intention behind this side of the new API has always been to provide maximum benefits to the widest range of users, hence well publicised support by Kepler & Fermi as well as Maxwell.
As far as I can tell what is being argued about on this thread is whether the hardware specific graphical enhancements of DX12 will be supported by cards that haven't been specifically designed around these, which seems a moot point IMHO.
Last edited:
Soldato
Cheers. I wonder what the "features" that's been argued over actually bring to the table with regards to dx12. I mean do we know what all these things do and what benefit they are to us.
I'm not sure these have been fully released as yet. Whatever graphical enhancements DX12 brings to the table will be largely irrelevant for most of us, at least until such time as top tier Maxwell's and the yet to be produced fully DX12 AMD equivalent become mainstream GPUs......which isn't going to be for a while.
Almost as amazing as expert developer discussion being dismissed because people don't like the message. Do you have anything to add, or a counter to the points I have quoted? Attacking me wont change what is being said by people far more clued up on this than anyone here.
Caporegime
What you did was post another like implying it agrees with you, however i don't see anything in that which agrees with you, perhaps i missed it, but i doubt it.
Oh and BTW. from your link
Well, we know already that reading comprehension is not one of your strong points.
In this case, not only did I quote that actual line of text a few posts above, but that thread describes how many other features have to be emulated in GCN which imposes a huge and untenable performance penalty. Add that to the other posts I have linked to where people have created software that generates DX12 instances and enumerates the feature support, and it adds to the overall picture which is that Maxwell v2 has a commanding functionality lead over GCN 1.x
What complete and utter tosh from both you guys. Mantle was never going to be for the consoles. Never. It was designed to bring a console like API to the PC. That's it. AMD did make a statement saying that Mantle could be used on other platforms but that would only happen if Microsoft or Sony approached AMD about using it.
There is no evidence of anything you say here. Surely the release of DX12 was more to do with Microsoft releasing Windows 10 this year. I could agree with you if you said Mantle probably put some skids under Microsoft when they saw the huge interest that Mantle created. But, DX12 was coming anyway.
DX12 and mantle would have some similarities, they are both low level apis and well, read my next point.
Of course Sony got help from AMD, it's their hardware, they would have worked closely together. Microsoft are using DX12 made with BOTH Nvidia and AMD's help, they both had an input into it. This is another reason why Mantle and DX12 look the same.