SK07 said:
Okay after Chong completely destroyed what UEX said. It's safe to say im officially confused lol. I'll wait up until he updates so I'll try and learn something through your discussion.
CW isnt totally wrong, unfortunately he debinked my post simply because it wasnt 100% 'perfect' advice. You have been given plenty of vague pointers and yet asked for more specifics, so i have given them to you.
To cover CW's issues with my advice firstly:-
Building muscle on 2200 cals per day? damn straight! Ok so in your mind, calories taken in are used up like fuel and if you run out you cannot build muscle? Well thats not how the body works. Im putting together a post on anabolism and hormones but i need to be sure its all 100% watertight advice before posting as the consequences of following it can be dangerous. Until i post that i will just say this. When your body is anabolic (during periods of hormone activity such as the elevated testosterone during short heavy lifting periods) it builds muscle, when it is catabolic (such as during and after endurance training and lengthy cardio) it breaks down fat AND muscle. CW seems to think this biuld up and break down is indiscriminate, the body is far more efficient than that.
My response to you, SK07, was based around YOUR body type as you have described it, you have excess body fat yes? So what happens when you eat too few calories in a day to hit your maintainance target? Your body supplements the energy requirment with calories from body fat right? Thats how you loose weight.
Now imagine we zoom in on a time period of 1.5hours. During this time you do 1 hour of weights. Your body starts out with, say, 500calories in blood sugar stores (including glycogen in both the liver and the muscles). And for arguments sake lets say that by the 30min mark you have broken down and used all of this energy, your body will begin lipolysis, the mobilization and breakdown of fat stores for energy. This happens DESPITE the body being fundamentally anabolic at this stage. As you continue to excercise and burn calories your body begins to become 'concerned' with this continued fat loss and you start to get an excess of the stress hormone cortisol, cortisol is a complex hormone that has many functions in the body, however for the purpose of this post lets concentrate on its anti-anabolic (catabolic) effects.
As cortisol levels rise you body becomes more and more catabolic, this is a hinderence to muscle growth and can lead to muscle breakdown if allowed to continue for an extended period. Damaging catabolism will only occur towards the 2 hour mark of heavy excercise. It can be prevented, or at least halted by ingestion of fast acting protein and the release of insulin.
Thus after your 1hr15 train, having burnt you 'backup' sugars and then burnt some fat, call it a total of 900cals.
HOWEVER here comes the bit people miss in their maths, where did these calories come from? only 500 were from diet, the other 400 came from body fat.
This process of anabolism and catabolism is ongoing in much smaller quantities throughout the day. And throughout the day the body is supplementing its calorie needs with body fat. Thus providing the correct calories are taken at the correct times, you can manipulate your body's systems to your own ends.
If you are taking in large quantities of protein along with well timed carbs, you can ensure that you stay anabolic almost 24/7 the body will supplement its own energy needs with body fats whilst using the useful calories in your diet to build muscle.
You see the body does not break down muscle and food-protein for energy, at least not ordinarily, the body must be in a catabolic state for this to occur, the body must either be desperate to reduce muscle mass due to low bodyfat (thus skinny people are hard gainers) or convinced that it requires the energy over some less preferable alternative. Simply put, providing you give your body the right things at the right times you can keep protein anabolism up and maintain fat catabolism, but its no simple balance.
This only works while you have excess bodyfat, a trim person would struggle to maintain growth.
Look at that lot, that is why i was keeping my responses practical and specific, the above is simplified still further and yet far more complex and in depth than most stuff posted here on the topic.
Double dose multi-vit was meant to mean, double RDA of typical shop bought stuff.
Double dose cod liver oil because your joints are your friend and too much fish oil wont do you any harm, plus its cheap and great if you dont get a lot of fish in your diet (ill admit i take more cos i hate fish).
Vit D and C are great for many aspects of health but i single D out for its bone strengthening qualities, personally i think its important to have as stron a bones as poss, but lets call that one a judgment call.
As far as getting these nutrients from your diet, sure thats fine, but i cant spend all day balancing the vitamin contents of each food item to ensure im getting what i need. What i dont get from diet the pills take care of, the rest goes literally down the loo, ive not advocated and dangerous doses.
My diet contains sod all omega 6, to be honest id never really considered it, the main reason i posted an omega 3+6 supp is that in the supermarket they tend to come together in one cap. Just trying to keep it simple for SK07
Whats your issue with branded whey powders? Sure i could have written a 3 page essay on combining isolates, concentrates, BCAA's L-glutamine and other amino acids and AA precursors, but what would be the point? To save him a few bob on bulk powder by the kilo, but what if, say, he dislikes the flavour? Or reacts badly to whey? or the particular blend or flavouring or colourant? Why throw in all this complication when the poor guy just needs a complete protein that wont make him gag? I like the proteins from Myprotein and other bulk suppliers, but its easier to start with the commercial tubs till you know your nuts.
Zero fat? Because you never get zero fat with wholefood, ultra low fat short term diets can be great, but i was suggesting that keeping fats out of your main meals as much as poss is a great way to cut overall calories.
The problem is CW that you have responded to my post as if it was aimed at telling YOU what to do to train, it wasn't. you quite clearly have some knowledge of the sport and the nutrition to go along with it. But SK07 wanted a few specifics and i tried to give them without creating a mammoth post that might scare him off the topic with its complexity.
I fear perhaps this may still have gone too deep into some parts, and for the love of god i plead that no one complicate matters further by picking holes in the semantics of this post, i know the fundamental science to be right and any innaccuracies will not really be of concern to anyone reading it for help. I dont claim to be any kind of authority on this topic but ive spent a lot of time doing research and testing theories, im a biology graduate to boot with at least some technical knowledge.
SK07, form your own opinions on it all my man, take advice where its given and consider all possibilities. Blindly following anything said by any one person is a sure path to destruction.
Basically due to my height i think my BF levels need to be below 10% at least to show even the outline of my abs. Yet i weigh 60.8kg which is horrible considering i used to be a rugby player and consider myself quite a solid and strong guy.
i want some fat though as putting on 3 stone of pure muscle is very hard.
