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OcUK Intel Raptor Lake review thread
- Thread starter CAT-THE-FIFTH
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There is always scope for Intel to start sponsoring some games to use the E-cores for certain tasks. I agree more P cores would be nice,but the issue is that AMD pricing is off for the Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 CPUs,so AMD does not really have a core advantage overall.
But if you look at the US RRP,the Core i5 13600KF is around $294~$304:
Intel® Core™ i5-13600KF Processor (24M Cache, up to 5.10 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel
Intel® Core™ i5-13600KF Processor (24M Cache, up to 5.10 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.
ark.intel.com
The Ryzen 5 7600X RRP is $299.99!! So there is some exchange rate wonkiness probably happening here. But it also means for US reviews,the Core i5 13600KF looks even a better deal against the Ryzen 5 7600X. But for our purposes we need to go by the UK pricing.Remember,the Core i5 13600KF is about 5% to 10% more expensive than a Ryzen 5 7600X in the UK. It is also nearly 20% cheaper than a Ryzen 7 7700X.
Almost everyone I know who pays over £300 is either gaming and also doing productivity stuff. Matching a Ryzen 9 5900X and not being far off even a Ryzen 9 5950X in video encoding software is a lot of performance for a sub £400 CPU. The big issue is AMD is putting it's gaming orientated,and "entry level" gaming orientated/productivity Zen4 CPUs,at £330 and £420 respectively. So you end up with an Intel CPU which is generally better than both for less than a Ryzen 7 7700X. If AMD had priced the Ryzen 5 7600X at £250~£260 and the Ryzen 7 7700X at £330~£340 then Intel would be forced to keep the Core i5 under £300. The issue is because from a performance standpoint Intel matches/beats AMD in both gaming and productivity they have priced it that way.
So currently if you intend to spend £300~£450 on a new CPU,the Core i5 13600KF looks the best deal. Do I think it should be cheaper - yes I do. Do I think they should make a cutdown version for under £300 - yes I do.
But what Intel seems to be doing is pushing down the ADL stack below £300. So the Core i5 12400F replacement,now has extra clockspeed,and 4 E-cores. The Core i5 12500 and Core i5 12600 replacements might have 8 extra E-cores. What is AMD using below that - Zen3. The issue is the Core i5 12600KF did well against the Ryzen 7 5800X/5700X in both gaming and productivity benchmarks:
Intel Core i5-12600K Review: 5600X Defeated
The Core i5-12600K is Intel's latest mainstream CPU and a direct competitor to AMD's popular Ryzen 5 5600X. The Alder Lake chip packs 6 P-cores and 4...
www.techspot.com
12th Gen Intel Core CPU Review Roundup
Intel has launched their new 12th Gen Intel Core desktop processors (code-named "Alder Lake") featuring support for DDR5, PCIe 5.0, as well as a completely new hybrid architecture using a mix of Performance and Efficient-cores. This is a lot of new technologies in one product which makes it hard...
www.pugetsystems.com
I am saying this as an owner of a Ryzen 7 5700X. That means even between £200~£300 AMD is starting to get less competitive. But below £200,the Core i5 12400F is also competitive against the Ryzen 5 5600 non-X too:
AMD Ryzen 5 5600 vs. Intel Core i5-12400F
We're comparing the Ryzen 5 5600 and Core i5-12400F mainstream CPUs across a range of games at 1080p and 1440p using four tiers of GPU: RTX 3060,...
www.techspot.com
Techspot/Hardware Unboxed says the Core i5 12400F is slightly faster. So realistically its a bit of a wash. Also the H610 can run DDR4 at XMP speeds too IIRC.I have also noticed the AM4 motherboards seem to have gone up in price(for the decent ones) and availability seems not as great too. The Intel motherboards seem to have gotten a bit cheaper.
Now AMD does have the Ryzen 5 5500 which is cheap,but it's also quite a hobbled CPU too so AMD might win there too but its not worth the money saved over the Ryzen 5 5600 non-X IMHO.AMD also definitely wins if you need an APU. So the only other places really were AMD wins,are well above £400 with the Ryzen 9 7900X and Ryzen 9 7950X. Plus the Ryzen 7 5800X3D looks a good upgrade on socket AM4 but now seems to cost over £400. But the issue is a Core i5 12600KF still is pretty much competitive in gaming at under £300 against it.
As a person who prefers to buy AMD CPUs and dGPUs,honestly this is all rather annoying. It was the same with the RX6700XT. AMD couldn't be bothered with an RX6700 and instead that ended up in mining SKUs. Then their RRP was not great and in the UK they didn't bother partnering with a local retailer(Nvidia did),so all the RX6700XT models here were overpriced from day one.I ended up with an RTX3060TI because Nvidia did a huge stock dump last summer and I found one for RRP. I wasn't even following the stock Discords.
I expect the same with RDNA3 - no reference models sold in the UK,so everything we get will be much higher than the RRP quoted in reviews. Add that to Nvidia deciding it wants to rebadge the RTX4060 as a RTX4080 or a RTX4070,a console increasingly looks like the way forward,or me just avoiding most newer games. That way I can have an older PC.
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Permabanned
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@CAT-THE-FIFTH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8kY_rx13L8
Timely video here. You can see the value of the 13600k and this further reduces platform costs by re using DDR4 which most DIY enthusiasts will be on. Then you can pick up a z690 ProA or PrimeP board to make the platform cost even cheaper. For a mid range buyer, that's been my recommendation since before they were officially launched (with having access to the data for some time already) and that's not changed since.
www.overclockers.co.uk
This board will handle it without any concerns.
Timely video here. You can see the value of the 13600k and this further reduces platform costs by re using DDR4 which most DIY enthusiasts will be on. Then you can pick up a z690 ProA or PrimeP board to make the platform cost even cheaper. For a mid range buyer, that's been my recommendation since before they were officially launched (with having access to the data for some time already) and that's not changed since.
MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4 - Intel Z690 DDR4 ATX Motherboard
Order MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4 - Intel Z690 DDR4 ATX Motherboard now online and benefit from fast delivery.
www.overclockers.co.uk
This board will handle it without any concerns.
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I also posted this:@CAT-THE-FIFTH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8kY_rx13L8
Timely video here. You can see the value of the 13600k and this further reduces platform costs by re using DDR4 which most DIY enthusiasts will be on. Then you can pick up a z690 ProA or PrimeP board to make the platform cost even cheaper. For a mid range buyer, that's been my recommendation since before they were officially launched (with having access to the data for some time already) and that's not changed since.
MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4 - Intel Z690 DDR4 ATX Motherboard
Order MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4 - Intel Z690 DDR4 ATX Motherboard now online and benefit from fast delivery.
This board will handle it without any concerns.
Intel 13600K and 13900K DDR4 vs DDR5 Showdown - OC3D
Introduction Any new technology is going to come with a hefty adoption cost, and the Z790 and Intel 13th Generation of processors is no exception. However, during our time with the various motherboards we had on hand we noted that a few of them support DDR4 rather than demand you invest in DDR5...
Also a decent B660 motherboard would be probably fine too. Techspot/Hardware Unboxed did a roundup:
Intel B660 Motherboard VRM, Mid-Range Roundup
In this roundup we have 8 new Intel B660 motherboards that go for from $150 to $250. Spoiler alert: We're looking at a hefty 70% difference between...
www.techspot.com
Both their recommended motherboards are under £160.
Unfortunately they still can't quite offer enough performance in the games where it's most needed, given a 120 fps cap, so a future upgrade is still required, which puts AM5 at an advantage. For me I limit myself by the display, which is always going to be a TV for the foreseeable future, so "only" 120 Hz for this decade, thus I care less about 500 fps vs 600 fps results and much more about those where 120 fps is barely reached (or held). Intel can almost do it, but still not quite, while AMD has a bigger problem particularly for some less favourable games (like CP2077) but they also matter the most - so it's on them to improve their performance there.
Given current pricing I think I'll just wait for CES '22 to see what the V-Cache CPUs can do, at least prices will drop, next year recession's going to bring the pain anyway.
Given current pricing I think I'll just wait for CES '22 to see what the V-Cache CPUs can do, at least prices will drop, next year recession's going to bring the pain anyway.
Caporegime
@CAT-THE-FIFTH no one is buying an i5 for productivity, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Caporegime
Currently in the top 12 US.
1, Ryzen 5800X
2, Ryzen 5600G
3, Ryzen 5600X
4, Ryzen 5900X
5, Intel 12700K
6, Intel 12900K
7, Intel 13900K
8, Intel 12600K
9, Ryzen 5800X3D
10, Ryzen 7950X
11, Ryzen 5700G
12, Ryzen 5600
The rest of the new chips.
22, Ryzen 7700X
23, Intel 13700K
25, Ryzen 7600X
26, Ryzen 7900X
46, Intel 13600KF
52, Intel 13700KF
56, Intel 13900KF
Notice how the 7700X is outselling the 13700K/F?
The 7600X outselling the 13600KF? the 13600K didn't even make it on the chart.
Because for what people want them for they are cheaper.
They are all too expensive CAT, you're wasting your time trying to justify over priced Intel CPU's, its not going to make a difference to AMD's over priced CPU's.
1, Ryzen 5800X
2, Ryzen 5600G
3, Ryzen 5600X
4, Ryzen 5900X
5, Intel 12700K
6, Intel 12900K
7, Intel 13900K
8, Intel 12600K
9, Ryzen 5800X3D
10, Ryzen 7950X
11, Ryzen 5700G
12, Ryzen 5600
The rest of the new chips.
22, Ryzen 7700X
23, Intel 13700K
25, Ryzen 7600X
26, Ryzen 7900X
46, Intel 13600KF
52, Intel 13700KF
56, Intel 13900KF
Notice how the 7700X is outselling the 13700K/F?
The 7600X outselling the 13600KF? the 13600K didn't even make it on the chart.
Because for what people want them for they are cheaper.
They are all too expensive CAT, you're wasting your time trying to justify over priced Intel CPU's, its not going to make a difference to AMD's over priced CPU's.
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I know plenty of people who spend £300~£450 on CPUs for productivity. Only on tech forums do people who do productivity "only" spend £500+ on CPUs. That includes lots of video and image editing software which I know loads of people run.
The fact is the Core i5 this generation has 14 cores and is beating a Ryzen 7 7700X in many common pieces of productivity software. The figures speak for themselves. You should be calling out AMD entirely for this - Intel delivered a 14 core CPU which is much better value than the Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X. AMD could have dropped pricing but wants to make you spend £420+ on a Ryzen 7 7700X which is their "entry level" productivity CPU. But their "entry level" productivity CPU is being matched or beaten by a "lowly" Core i5 costing 20% less and in the US its even worse as the RRPs of the Ryzen 5 7600X and Core i5 13600KF are almost the same.
That includes lots of video and image editing software which I know loads of people run.It also beats the Ryzen 9 5900X,which is well over £400. In gaming the Ryzen 7 7700X is barely faster(in many cases it isn't) and not even faster in many common pieces of software.
So every AMD CPU under £500 is not really any faster - that includes gaming and productivity. The DDR4 motherboards work fine,and show very little performance loss. You can get decent B660 motherboards for £150~£160. Some people I know,have looked at the productivity benchmarks and decided to buy a Core i5 13600KF over a Ryzen 7 7700X because of the price difference.
You might want to spin that productivity isn't important - well if you are spending over £300 on a CPU it is important. It's not the fault of Intel if AMD stubbornly keeps the Ryzen 5 at the £300ish mark with only six cores. With Alderlake Intel moved to 10 hybrid cores with the Core i5 12600K it actually beat my own Ryzen 7 5700X in many cases.
Plus lots of gamers do stream,video encode,etc. The Core i5 13600K is not only better for video encoding,but also with 8 background cores with Skylake level performance will obliterate the Ryzen 5 7600X in streaming.
So we can agree to disagree. You might think productivity is not important but for me it is. It is important for exactly 100% of the people I know who spend £300+ on a CPU.
Plus all my mates who are on AM4 now,have looked at this and said the Core i5 looks far better value. This includes really old school AMD fans. They all say AMD needs to drop its prices. No wonder Zen4 sales are not good.
Instead of recognising it now you have people saying:
1.)Productivity isn't important any more,despite for years people pushing Zen1/2/3 productivity improvements over similar Intel CPUs
2.)The ability to use cheaper RAM. Big selling point for the Phenom II,but suddenly not important any more
3.)Cheaper motherboards - suddenly not important.
4.)More cores and threads for the same price than the competition - big selling point over Intel but not anymore
5.)Gaming performance not important any more if Intel wins
The flip-flop with AMD since Zen3 is hilarious. AMD does literally lots of the things Intel did,and that is fine. The moment Intel actually plays AMD at their own game of "moar cores" and wins,suddenly not important.
AMD has gotten greedy to the extent,that even Intel can increase the price of a Core i5 slightly and still look much better value. Remember,how all of you lot argued with me when AMD jacked up pricing of Zen3 relative to Zen2 and Intel per core when they won?
It seems AMD has become the new Apple for too many. I am sure an iPhone XYZ does well in sales - doesn't means it's better than some other cheaper phone. But when Intel was selling more than AMD at some places wasn't people on here saying lots of people were being clueless,just like when Nvidia outsold AMD dGPUs?
Well,there you go - you only have yourselves to blame for Intel realising it could charge over £300 for a Core i5,when AMD puts out overpriced Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 CPUs which are slower. Intel still wins in price/performance against Zen4. Its why I went onto AM4 even though Intel was faster for gaming. The fact that you just keep on defending any rubbish move from AMD,means we need to agree to disagree. All you are doing is making excuses for AMD and we have nothing more to discuss because I have provided data and you haven't.
AMD jebaited itself!!
Now let's look at productivity benchmarks agains a Ryzen 7 7700X. Puget Systems is a good start:
13th Gen Intel Core Processors Content Creation Review
Following AMDs recent release of their Ryzen 7000 Series desktop processors, Intel is fighting back with their own launch of the Core 13th Gen processors (code named "Raptor Lake"). Unlike AMD's launch which moved to a new socket and added support for DDR5, the 13th Gen CPUs are a drop-in...
I only posted some of the benchmarks,but in the Puget Systems benchmarks,consistently the Core i5 13600K beats the Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X in all the image editing/video encoding scores. It even beats a Ryzen 9 5900X and Ryzen 9 5950X in many cases too,including video editing! In 3D rendering it beats a Ryzen 7 7700X and the Ryzen 9 5900X.
You can see the same here:
Test • Intel Core i9-13900K, Core i7-13700K, Core i5-13600K & Z790
Les Core i9-13900K & 13600K ainsi que leur chipset compagnon Z790 passent à la moulinette : comparaison avec les précédentes générations de processeurs sur des jeux, encodage, traitement d'image et vidéo, rendu 3D, compression, encryptage, compilation et divers benchmarks synthétiques et...www.comptoir-hardware.com
Even here,in a mix of image editing,video encoding and rendering benchmarks the Core i5 13600K is beating a Ryzen 5 7600X,Ryzen 7 7700X and Ryzen 9 5900X by decent amounts.
Then there is the DF review:
Intel Core i9 13900K and Core i5 13600K review: an effective redoubt against AMD's Ryzen 7000 advances
Digital Foundry tests the Intel Core i9 13900K and Core i5 13600K, two Raptor Lake processors that offer more cores, higher clocks and winning results.www.eurogamer.net
In their gaming results the Ryzen 5 7600X is beaten,and again it's massively beaten by the Core i5 13600K in non-gaming results. Even the Ryzen 9 5950X is only slightly ahead in their video encoding results!
Guru3D shows the same trends:
Intel Core i5-13600K review
Okay, so you really need to check out this Raptor Lake processor; the Core i5 13600K has six performance cores and eight energy-efficient ones. Meaning you'll have plenty of multi-threaded performanc... Performance - Content Creation Blender / Cinebench R23www.guru3d.com
They run a lot of 3D renderers,and in all of them the Core i5 13600K is faster than a Ryzen 7 7700X. It seems to trade blows with a Ryzen 9 5900X,which is over £400.
Then look at TPU:
Intel Core i5-13600K Review - Best Gaming CPU
Core i5-13600K is a gamer's dream! The new processor achieves gaming numbers that match the best AMD Zen 4 offerings, at a much more competitive $320 price point. Our review also shows that 13600K can shine in applications, beating the much higher positioned Core i7-12700K.www.techpowerup.com
Consistently the Core i5 13600K seems to trade blows or is faster in most benchmarks than the Ryzen 7 7700X and Ryzen 9 5900X.
People might want to mock the E cores,but they since they are Skylake level,they are helping boost performance in non-gaming scenarios a lot. Overclock3D tests performance with DDR4:
Intel 13600K and 13900K DDR4 vs DDR5 Showdown - OC3D
Video Encoding If you thought 3D rendering didn’t have much to differentiate the two setups then the video encoding is so close it might as well be the same. Sometimes no result is still a result. Â Â Â Âwww.overclock3d.net
At most in their gaming and non-gaming tests you are loosing about 10% performance. So that means even for many productivity benchmarks,the Core i5 13600K is still going to look really solid.
The reality is the Core i5 13600K is a productivity monster too,and the Core i5 13600KF is only £30 more than a Ryzen 5 7600X and significantly cheaper than either a Ryzen 7 7700X or Ryzen 9 5900X or Ryzen 9 5950X. Plus you can use a DDR4 motherboard too(even if it costs you some extra performance).
Plus you could argue the Core i5 13600K draws more power in productivity benchmarks than a Ryzen 5 7600X,but the extra speed help's its effciency.
But we also know in gaming capping the CPUs to lower TDPs,probably won't affect performance that much in gaming:
Intel Core i9-13900K vs. AMD Ryzen 9 7950X at 125W and 65W | Club386
Prefer to keep temperature and power consumption down to lower levels this winter? Here's what happens when the best CPUs are scaled back.www.club386.com
You are also looking at the best productivity CPU under £400~£450:
imgur.com
Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.imgur.com
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Caporegime
I'm not reading that wall of text, it doesn't say anything different to what you have been repeating over and over again.
The reality is this.
The reality is this.
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Caporegime
I'm not paying £400 for a mid level gaming CPU to drive my RTX 4070 when a £320 CPU does exactly the same job just as well.
Its as simple as that.
Its as simple as that.
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Soldato
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Intel Core i9-13900K "Mount Doom Lake"
Caporegime
Intel know tech journalists are going to focus on MT performance, so even at a higher price they will get a big thumbs up from them.
AMD know in this range people don't see E core as a necessity, they are quite happy to pay a bit less and not have them.
Because Intel E Core CPU's are priced so ####'ing high, like Hyper Threading of days gone, AMD can also price them higher to offer budget constrained thinking people an alternative.
Both AMD and Intel win!
Its almost like Intel and AMD agreed this amongst themselves, and yes tech journalists are behaving exactly as they predicted, they no doubt think they are the clever ones, but they aren't, i've said it before and i'll say it again, AMD, Intel.... they are not the stupid people here.
AMD know in this range people don't see E core as a necessity, they are quite happy to pay a bit less and not have them.
Because Intel E Core CPU's are priced so ####'ing high, like Hyper Threading of days gone, AMD can also price them higher to offer budget constrained thinking people an alternative.
Both AMD and Intel win!
Its almost like Intel and AMD agreed this amongst themselves, and yes tech journalists are behaving exactly as they predicted, they no doubt think they are the clever ones, but they aren't, i've said it before and i'll say it again, AMD, Intel.... they are not the stupid people here.
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Overclock3D did a quick set of tests including non-gaming applications:
Intel 13600K and 13900K DDR4 vs DDR5 Showdown - OC3D
Introduction Any new technology is going to come with a hefty adoption cost, and the Z790 and Intel 13th Generation of processors is no exception. However, during our time with the various motherboards we had on hand we noted that a few of them support DDR4 rather than demand you invest in DDR5...
Techspot(website version of Hardware Unboxed) tested DDR4 too but only with games:
Intel Core i9-13900K Review: Hot and Hungry
Hot of the heels of AMD's Zen 4 series launch, here comes Intel with their highly anticipated 13th-gen Core series, codenamed Raptor Lake. Today we're reviewing the...
www.techspot.com
Looks about a 10% performance reduction at worst.
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Might I take from it that if you're gaming with DDR4 it's better to stick with 12th gen or am I misreading?Overclock3D did a quick set of tests including non-gaming applications:
Intel 13600K and 13900K DDR4 vs DDR5 Showdown - OC3D
Introduction Any new technology is going to come with a hefty adoption cost, and the Z790 and Intel 13th Generation of processors is no exception. However, during our time with the various motherboards we had on hand we noted that a few of them support DDR4 rather than demand you invest in DDR5...
Techspot(website version of Hardware Unboxed) tested DDR4 too but only with games:
Intel Core i9-13900K Review: Hot and Hungry
Hot of the heels of AMD's Zen 4 series launch, here comes Intel with their highly anticipated 13th-gen Core series, codenamed Raptor Lake. Today we're reviewing the...
Looks about a 10% performance reduction at worst.
Soldato
Would be nice to have a cpu ranking thread just like we have for gpus.
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Associate
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Currently got a 1700 OC to 3.85ghz. I'm buying a 5900x. No point spending all that extra cash for a new mobo/ram/chip to not make any real difference. My fps will improve with the 5900x as will my video encoding. Both AMD and Intel are taking the **** with the cost of these new chips. I'm not going to see any meaningful difference with my mid range GPU (5600XT). Power is plain stupid for intel for multithreading (same for AMD to a point). Intel seem to have gone way outside the efficiency curve for the multithreading tasks although gaming is a lot better.
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DDR4 vs DDR5 - i5 13600k vs i9 13900K
Thankfully with Z790 we still have the option to run DDR4 or DDR5 so we have tested the i5 13600K and the i9 13900K with both DDR4 and DDR5 to see what perfo...
www.youtube.com
lmao I don't even know what to say here. He's running DDR4 in G2. I can't imagine how bad the rest of the setup is. What a waste of a nice kit.
But either way,looking at the comparisons so far,the differences don't look large. Really the Ryzen 7 7700X needs to be competing with the Core i5 13600K/13600KF. The meme cores are doing enough - it's to be expected when Intel literally bolted on a downclocked Core i7 9700 onto the side of a six core Raptor Lake CPU.
DDR4 vs DDR5 - i5 13600k vs i9 13900K
Thankfully with Z790 we still have the option to run DDR4 or DDR5 so we have tested the i5 13600K and the i9 13900K with both DDR4 and DDR5 to see what perfo...
lmao I don't even know what to say here. He's running DDR4 in G2. I can't imagine how bad the rest of the setup is. What a waste of a nice kit.
So if properly set-up even less of a difference then?
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