******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******

Soldato
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As I said before, a lot of what you are saying is correct. I agreed with the blinkered comment though, you are so obsequious in your replies that you are really missing and ignoring points people are trying to make and THEN accusing others of doing the same thing!!

I'm going to remove myself from the conversation too as I feel like we are almost ganging up on you and my replies to you weren't meant to 'get at you' so to speak. You clearly have a lot of knowledge and passion for the game and just want people to understand but I do feel you are the extreme opposite of those left wing conspiracy people you mentioned :)

No problem, I think the problem here really is that I gave an alternative opinion, previously provided the facts to counteract the points they made but then they got ignored again and again, maybe not even by the same poster so now have got that point where I do not really try to explain all the details to the opposite views as it appears to fall on deaf ears.

My bad really for causing such points by me not making the effort but I am tired of trying to provide the explanations with the facts that are written and available to 95% of the counter points made. Where people are not willing to take those points into consideration is the blinkered part. If you are willing to listen and counter those points logically with fact, then all well and good. Unfortunately I guess I got sidetracked to dealing with this when it didn't appear to be going forward and should have just left it alone and let them carry on without trying to provide the information to explain.

Don't worry about the gang mentality. It is all in discussion. Discussion get heated, polar views will always collide to a point but that is fine. Cheers for reminding me of why I am here to discuss the game though and to remember to enjoy it as it develops :)
 
Soldato
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Okay I kind of get what you are saying there, I do disagree because you contridict yourself in your points and have missed/ignored clear points.
I contradict myself less than CIG have gone back on their clear word regarding what they would and would not be doing, a couple cases in point being the once-only LTI thing and the MMO+Solo campaign package that they said would not be separated...

But if there's something important I've missed, it's because CIG have not effectively informed me about it, choosing instead to bury it beneath a metric ****ton of fluff and guff.

I would suggest that the biggest group that shout foul are those who backed but are not actively following and thus they are misinformed or going on rants without even looking at what is there.
It's more that I don't care what is there any more. I've given up.
To begin with, it was all going very well - News updates, a couple of features, plus loads of interaction on the forums.
Suddenly everything kicked off and it became a real mission just to keep up on a quarter of the updates and goings on, until eventually it just got boring. Same things said over and over, with what felt like meaningless padding to distract from the lack of actual output.
A mass TL;DR, if you like, but across every platform.

And for the record, I never looked to any other place than CIG for news, really.

That is THE big problem for CIG, to control the information and make sure everyone can see it.
Simple - Cut it down to something more concise and straightforward, instead of running multiple news streams. It's too much guff with no focussed content.

You need to associate a cost with showing the community what you are doing and how because that is what the community wanted
Does everything always need an über-high definition hour long video and set of interviews with everyone, livestreamed conference calls between offices, trailers and SUCH high detail, though..... or can we just have a few pics and a couple of articles in a newsletter that still inform people just as well?

This is why it looks like they're going over the top and blowing loads of money on the glitz and guff.

Just because it isn't in your hands and playable does not mean they have not shown progress.
It's the progress they were shouting so loudly about that got people annoyed -


And to say that you are not expecting things to change, re-iterate and even get scrapped completely and reworked is then just misunderstanding what development means.
I do not expect to back one thing and then have them change it to another, though. The fundamentals are what we signed up to.

Unfortunately it is something CIG have to deal with but it should be the responsibility of every backer who put monies into the game to know that it will be a long hard road, there will be lots of road blocks, forks in the road and similar.
Yes, but people gave them money because they had faith that CIG would deliver.
Currently, I don't believe they have hit a single deadline in the history of this project and given that this nice big company couldn't even manage to get a set of plastic cards printed up and mailed out for many many months after they said they would, I imagine you can see why peoples' faith in CIG is quite shaken at this point...?

If anyone went in going awesome in 2012 I can see what CR wants, he said it will be done in 2014 I am in and want it then as that is what he has suggested as a goal and didn't think knowing the scope even then with 6 people currently in his team that they were being optimistic and best case were honestly fooling themselves.
Yes indeed, because every member of the public is a fully versed expert in the intricacies of game development finance and management, production timescales, work involved, yadda yadda yadda....
NO.
That is not what people signed up for and that is not how it was presented. If everyone knew it was going to be this much of a faff at every turn, CIG would have gotten very few pledges.

Most people likely don't care, though. They want what is being offered, when it is being offerred.

Again though even if it has been delayed. There a number that got delayed 2 years, a number that got pulled for 'X' years and then started development again. A number that got developed for 3 years, a new studio came in and then redeveloped it for another 3 years but they get a pass as (or a short period of being shouted at by press or public at worst) because it isn't public monies.
That's another thing - Chris Roberts's reputation following Freelancer, several years late and only released after Microsoft effectively booted him out because it was stuck in feature-creep.
There's all the stuff you've said, but also the faith aspect and people are again losing faith based on what they're seeing.

They are human building a massive multi-country company from 6 people. That is significantly hard work. The growth rate they have shown compared to most companies is exponentially faster. There will be issues with teams, management and similar.
And what these humans building a company have to understand is that people will only stay with them, stumping up huge sums of money for non-existent junk, for so long....

These are major factors to consider and people don't often consider them.
Again, it's how it *looks* and how it's being handled that matters to people.
CIG could take another 10 years to complete this, but if they keep faffing around and plugging the guff instead of presenting something a bit more concise and useful, they will lose more customers.
 
Soldato
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The problem I have is I think what they are presenting is useful and concise. A lot of their videos are short. The longer videos are paid for by the subscribers because they asked for them.

So yeah I understand that you feel that they should be and my opinion is that they are. That is fair enough. Everyone wants different things. Thanks for clarifying how you are feeling about it.
 
Caporegime
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Unsure on that pal, to me currently seems like the whole design is kind of in a limbo. It has an industrialy vibe with the design choices whilst but trying to cover that up with "posh"

For example kind of like a perfectly good back road car garage. Dressing itself up to look like a mclaren garage.

I will explain more detailed on Saturday though as would be a lengthy post.

Interesting, looking forward to that. :)
 
Caporegime
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http://imgur.com/a/IQPFU

IQPFU
 
Soldato
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12,310
The problem I have is I think what they are presenting is useful and concise. A lot of their videos are short. The longer videos are paid for by the subscribers because they asked for them.
They were useful at one stage, mainly during the Wingmans Hangar bit back when I was just another gushing fanboi, like... But as time went on, it just got too much, not helped by the rather toxic environment on the forums - GD here has nothing on that place!!
It just felt like they were doing more and more fluff for the sake of it, really - You know how a used car salesman starts prattling on and on and you get the sense that you're just being conned? It was like that.

That's why I've pretty much given up caring, withdrawn my subscription and don't really pay attention any more unless they actually release something new.
 
Soldato
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They were useful at one stage, mainly during the Wingmans Hangar bit back when I was just another gushing fanboi, like... But as time went on, it just got too much, not helped by the rather toxic environment on the forums - GD here has nothing on that place!!
It just felt like they were doing more and more fluff for the sake of it, really - You know how a used car salesman starts prattling on and on and you get the sense that you're just being conned? It was like that.

That's why I've pretty much given up caring, withdrawn my subscription and don't really pay attention any more unless they actually release something new.

That is fair enough. I think the ATV showing a different feature in more detail as they get the base tech for it online as such is interesting. I am not bothered by the lore, bug smashers or most the happy hours but they all come from subscription monies so that is fine since it's an added extra.

Some of the happy hours have been good though. Seeing coding, tools, modelling and a bit about the devs is good.

The citizen of the stars is cringe-worthy but again subscribers, however I like the question time section as it still highlights stuff.

I can't think what else they do :/ but yeah so really the only one I know I enjoy and keep watching really is the ATV. And I have just checked (because I thought ATV was from general funding myself) and found that ATV is also paid by the subscribers. So again that is even better news. I don't subscribe as I don't think the content is great for the monies however I appreciate the shows.

However I don't think what they are showing in the ATV is a con. There is just too much work to make it worthwhile to really be building the tools and showing the gameplay doesn't make sense for it to be so.

But fair enough on the waiting. I don't play it because I am aware that 2.X.X is just base tech demos and waiting for the first real Alpha which to me is 3.0 then I will play a few hours a week as they (hopefully) keep updating via the delta patcher.
 
Soldato
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I think the ATV showing a different feature in more detail as they get the base tech for it online as such is interesting. I am not bothered by the lore, bug smashers or most the happy hours but they all come from subscription monies so that is fine since it's an added extra.
The extras I was fine with, so long as they were all in one update sort of thing, as well as one point of detailed focus for those that want it, etc.
Even without having an interest in the tech stuff, I was spending several hours a day just going through the updates and 'news'...

ATV is also paid by the subscribers. So again that is even better news. I don't subscribe as I don't think the content is great for the monies however I appreciate the shows.
It was probably around that point I lost interest the most. If they have that much money that they can afford to start coming up with more guff to pad things out and backslap themselves about, perhaps they should be more focussed on delivering the game and not coming up with more imaginary assets for ever increasing prices...

I mean, a whole video on all the food and presents and stuff that the gushing fanboys had sent, long WIP videos about a single small asset (in this instance a cargo box), artwork, Showdown, Update, weekly sneak peek, several weekly livestreams....?
Insert obvious 'Ain't Nobody Got Time For Dat' gif.... followed by remarks and links to Black Emoji thread!! :D
 
Soldato
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Open development, what they're doing is what you pledged for. You don't have to watch it all but they'd be panned if they didn't do something for the community when they send gifts in. They can't win with the community half the time as someone will always bitch regardless.

They do far fewer "look at the loot we were sent" vids now than they did in 2013/14.
 
Soldato
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The extras I was fine with, so long as they were all in one update sort of thing, as well as one point of detailed focus for those that want it, etc.
Even without having an interest in the tech stuff, I was spending several hours a day just going through the updates and 'news'...


It was probably around that point I lost interest the most. If they have that much money that they can afford to start coming up with more guff to pad things out and backslap themselves about, perhaps they should be more focussed on delivering the game and not coming up with more imaginary assets for ever increasing prices...

I mean, a whole video on all the food and presents and stuff that the gushing fanboys had sent, long WIP videos about a single small asset (in this instance a cargo box), artwork, Showdown, Update, weekly sneak peek, several weekly livestreams....?
Insert obvious 'Ain't Nobody Got Time For Dat' gif.... followed by remarks and links to Black Emoji thread!! :D

But ive just stated the money is from the extra subscription and not the development funds. I also enjoyed the cargo box one for instance. Its all fine you dont but it takes nothing away to produce and means we can keep connected to the project.

Everyone wants something different so they provide those different elements. Honeslty providing all different content for different people is commendable as its extra that people pay into if they want.
 
Associate
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London
This still vapourware?
Vaporware doesn't accumulate $153m over 5 years.
If CIG can't create the best, or at least one of the best games of all time, then gamers might as well quit gaming for all time instead of giving money away to jobsworth game publishers for pretty much the same game year after year calling it the next best sequel.
Once a computer gamer, always a computer gamer, no matter what the personal situation.
Bring together the Everquest and EQ2 and World of Warcraft fans, Battlefield and Wolfenstein with Battlefield fans, the Guild Wars and Rift fans, and GW2 and LoL fans together, then the likes of Call of Duty little boys will form in line dropping their skirts and then the bumless trousers fashion will grow up and contribute to helping towards building the best game of all time that is SC.
 
Soldato
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Vaporware doesn't accumulate $153m over 5 years.
If CIG can't create the best, or at least one of the best games of all time, then gamers might as well quit gaming for all time instead of giving money away to jobsworth game publishers for pretty much the same game year after year calling it the next best sequel.
Once a computer gamer, always a computer gamer, no matter what the personal situation.
Bring together the Everquest and EQ2 and World of Warcraft fans, Battlefield and Wolfenstein with Battlefield fans, the Guild Wars and Rift fans, and GW2 and LoL fans together, then the likes of Call of Duty little boys will form in line dropping their skirts and then the bumless trousers fashion will grow up and contribute to helping towards building the best game of all time that is SC.
Easy on the koolaid man. SC firstly needs to be made then we can actually see if its any good. So far it plays horribly compared to ED for example. Dog fighting is not even remotely on par.
 
Soldato
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Easy on the koolaid man. SC firstly needs to be made then we can actually see if its any good. So far it plays horribly compared to ED for example. Dog fighting is not even remotely on par.

Comparing them even when complete would be difficult as they have very different flight mechanics and weaponry. I enjoy both but think over all the ED mechanics for simple person ships are more fun but not sure they would work as well with multi-crew ships with manned turrets etc.
 
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