******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******

[jonneymendoza]

It’s not a game though, it’s product in development that’s absolutely nowhere finished. But due the nature of the open development it’s always in the public eye, there is something to play and mess around (test..) whilst it’s being developed. Sure it’s taking along time, but it’s a bloody huge game!
I paid for it and I get a little frustrated with it, I bought a package last November, messed around a little had a good time and now I’ll wait for 3.0, when that hits I’m sure I’ll do the same with that build, play, have fun laugh at all the stupid bugs it has put it down and wait for the next build.
The game will done when it’s done, and all the moaning in the world won’t change that

Its been in development already for what? 4 years? Not even GTA takes that long.

talk of it not being in beta for another 2 years is comical

i dont think this game will ever be done

 

[Raumarik]

Its been in development already for what? 4 years? Not even GTA takes that long.

talk of it not being in beta for another 2 years is comical

i dont think this game will ever be done

Most in the SC community don't care about the timescales, those that do are encouraged to get refunds. It'll be done when it's done and if it fails I've still had over a thousand hours of fun with friends on the way.

Sounds like good value to me tbh.

 

[DONOHUE07]

Its been in development already for what? 4 years? Not even GTA takes that long.

talk of it not being in beta for another 2 years is comical

i dont think this game will ever be done

Prey and Diablo both took 11 years to make, Duke Nukeam Forever took 15 years..

 

[FloppyPoppy]

Prey and Diablo both took 11 years to make, Duke Nukeam Forever took 15 years..

You got it in the back of the net with that paul!

 

[phrases]

Bloody hope its in beta by 2019

Looking at the leaked stuff its a good thing that 3.0 isn't out yet by the time you got to log in you would already of gone space mad.

 

[Curlyriff]

Its been in development already for what? 4 years? Not even GTA takes that long.

talk of it not being in beta for another 2 years is comical

i dont think this game will ever be done

We have had these discussions. GTA V was done by a team of 1000 people.

It started having the preliminary development back in 2008. It came out on PC in 2015 so 7 years. it was by a studio who was already running and building on a franchise and engine that they had internally created over a decade (RAGE Engine). And so I would say that it is significantly different and your statement on it is all wrong.

To compare more direct Beyond Good & Evil 2 has been in development since 2007. It got axed and restarted and they also have only just after 10 years have only just stated their engine tech is about there and they have another 3 years to get it out. So that is a game with similar seamless travel in a huge system that if Ubi are correct on their 3 year production would have taken them 13 years to complete. Again Ubisoft is a massive company with 11,000 staff and a net income of 562 million euro.

So again your premise on how long games take to produce is not good. If you take the year of tech demos prior to CR announcing Star Citizen and we assume Beta is 2019 and thus release around 2020 which incidentally would be same time as BG&E2 would mean it's development time is 9 years. Add into that they are releasing 2 games technically with Star Citizen & SQ42 and both are AAA games means that considering they are around 500 people is actually pretty impressive.

Or lets take DS game LOD (Line of Defence) that is produce by Derek Smart, cost around $20 million to date. Started development in 2009, was slated to release 2012, then 2014 and now on hiatus as well as being pulled of steam. It looks like a game from 1999. So yeah I would say there are many things that really show the development is actually moving reasonably well. The only issue CIG have always had is CR's optimism of things being out way before they are ready and not communicating well about that.

 

[francky]

Not sure why you guys bother even wasting your energy on people saying this game is a scam or is never coming out..they are literally a waste of your time typing.

 

[Curlyriff]

Not sure why you guys bother even wasting your energy on people saying this game is a scam or is never coming out..they are literally a waste of your time typing.

Probably right, however I just feel like some people are only feeling that way because of bad reports, miss information and lack of understanding in what the process is.

 

[Zethor]

We have had these discussions. GTA V was done by a team of 1000 people.

It started having the preliminary development back in 2008. It came out on PC in 2015 so 7 years. it was by a studio who was already running and building on a franchise and engine that they had internally created over a decade (RAGE Engine). And so I would say that it is significantly different and your statement on it is all wrong.

To compare more direct Beyond Good & Evil 2 has been in development since 2007. It got axed and restarted and they also have only just after 10 years have only just stated their engine tech is about there and they have another 3 years to get it out. So that is a game with similar seamless travel in a huge system that if Ubi are correct on their 3 year production would have taken them 13 years to complete. Again Ubisoft is a massive company with 11,000 staff and a net income of 562 million euro.

So again your premise on how long games take to produce is not good. If you take the year of tech demos prior to CR announcing Star Citizen and we assume Beta is 2019 and thus release around 2020 which incidentally would be same time as BG&E2 would mean it's development time is 9 years. Add into that they are releasing 2 games technically with Star Citizen & SQ42 and both are AAA games means that considering they are around 500 people is actually pretty impressive.

Or lets take DS game LOD (Line of Defence) that is produce by Derek Smart, cost around $20 million to date. Started development in 2009, was slated to release 2012, then 2014 and now on hiatus as well as being pulled of steam. It looks like a game from 1999. So yeah I would say there are many things that really show the development is actually moving reasonably well. The only issue CIG have always had is CR's optimism of things being out way before they are ready and not communicating well about that.

The game pitched in 2012 was supposed to be released in 2-3 years. They raised a tone of money, they kept adding features so at some point much of the progress they made during these 2-3 years was thrown in the bin because it was incompatible with the new, grand vision. They hired new people, including quite a few from Crytek but then they realised they can't make a MMO on CryEngine, it has too many issues related to the fact that it was built for shooters not MMO's. Then they changed the game's engine (although the official line is that "it's basically the same engine" - it really isn't) so more work thrown in the bin. They triumphantly started working on Star Marine, including cringe worthy "team play" videos, but that got binned at some point too. They redesigned ships a million times including ones that were never released (someone got paid to design the ship and despite it never being released, then they got paid to design it again and again). All of this cost a lot of money I wouldn't be surprised if they have spent at least 100m of the 150m they received so far. A cheap code monkey costs at least $80k per year, multiply by 5 and you get 400k, multiply by 250 (that's a median no., the team is bigger now, used to be smaller) and you get 100m.

So here we are today and let's be honest, they don't have a lot to brag with after 100m+ spent so far. Roberts has good intentions, his vision is something I'd "dig" into any time.. but not like this. He's a horrid product manager with a bad track record(Freelancer), his "Co-Founder" is an actress, shoe designer who also happens to be his wife, the module approach was a bad choice (he should have gone for an initially smaller but easily expandable game) and if not much changes in 2018, there's a real possibility that they will run out of money.

The project itself is definitely not a scam, it has a chance to succeed but that chance is decreasing with every passing month.

 

[FloppyPoppy]

there's a real possibility that they will run out of money.

Don't see that happening. I'm pretty sure they have a lot more than a years surplus of money.

 

[humbug]

The game pitched in 2012 was supposed to be released in 2-3 years. They raised a tone of money, they kept adding features so at some point much of the progress they made during these 2-3 years was thrown in the bin because it was incompatible with the new, grand vision. They hired new people, including quite a few from Crytek but then they realised they can't make a MMO on CryEngine, it has too many issues related to the fact that it was built for shooters not MMO's. Then they changed the game's engine (although the official line is that "it's basically the same engine" - it really isn't) so more work thrown in the bin. They triumphantly started working on Star Marine, including cringe worthy "team play" videos, but that got binned at some point too. They redesigned ships a million times including ones that were never released (someone got paid to design the ship and despite it never being released, then they got paid to design it again and again). All of this cost a lot of money I wouldn't be surprised if they have spent at least 100m of the 150m they received so far. A cheap code monkey costs at least $80k per year, multiply by 5 and you get 400k, multiply by 250 (that's a median no., the team is bigger now, used to be smaller) and you get 100m.

So here we are today and let's be honest, they don't have a lot to brag with after 100m+ spent so far. Roberts has good intentions, his vision is something I'd "dig" into any time.. but not like this. He's a horrid product manager with a bad track record(Freelancer), his "Co-Founder" is an actress, shoe designer who also happens to be his wife, the module approach was a bad choice (he should have gone for an initially smaller but easily expandable game) and if not much changes in 2018, there's a real possibility that they will run out of money.

The project itself is definitely not a scam, it has a chance to succeed but that chance is decreasing with every passing month.

Then they changed the game's engine (although the official line is that "it's basically the same engine" - it really isn't)

'The official line is' its a different engine, it really isn't, Lumberyard is Cryengine 3.8, although they have now branched off in different directions Crytek sold Amazon Cryengine 3, the same engine star citizen was built on, the reason they witched to Lumberyard was because of Amazons infrastructure and their willingness to build it around CIG's needs.
They didn't actually need to do much in the form of porting from Cryengine to Lumberyard because they are the same.

Thank you very much for the information. Looks good. I like no drama guilds. I've joined the Discord server just so I can hang out for a bit with you guys.

I have to warn you I know basically nothing about Star Citizen. I've only recently become interested in it and haven't been following the game up to this point so I might ask some stupid question from time to time. All I know is that Star Citizen 3.0 is the flavour of the month at the moment.

Anytime mate.

 

[Curlyriff]

The game pitched in 2012 was supposed to be released in 2-3 years. They raised a tone of money, they kept adding features so at some point much of the progress they made during these 2-3 years was thrown in the bin because it was incompatible with the new, grand vision. They hired new people, including quite a few from Crytek but then they realised they can't make a MMO on CryEngine, it has too many issues related to the fact that it was built for shooters not MMO's. Then they changed the game's engine (although the official line is that "it's basically the same engine" - it really isn't) so more work thrown in the bin. They triumphantly started working on Star Marine, including cringe worthy "team play" videos, but that got binned at some point too. They redesigned ships a million times including ones that were never released (someone got paid to design the ship and despite it never being released, then they got paid to design it again and again). All of this cost a lot of money I wouldn't be surprised if they have spent at least 100m of the 150m they received so far. A cheap code monkey costs at least $80k per year, multiply by 5 and you get 400k, multiply by 250 (that's a median no., the team is bigger now, used to be smaller) and you get 100m.

So here we are today and let's be honest, they don't have a lot to brag with after 100m+ spent so far. Roberts has good intentions, his vision is something I'd "dig" into any time.. but not like this. He's a horrid product manager with a bad track record(Freelancer), his "Co-Founder" is an actress, shoe designer who also happens to be his wife, the module approach was a bad choice (he should have gone for an initially smaller but easily expandable game) and if not much changes in 2018, there's a real possibility that they will run out of money.

The project itself is definitely not a scam, it has a chance to succeed but that chance is decreasing with every passing month.

None of what you replied with changes what I stated previous though.

And you are wrong about the engine. CryEngine has it's issues, so would have Unity or Unreal Engine (especially as UE4 wasn't about then). The move to Lumberyard is excellent and it is the same base code. It is the reason it only took a few days to move things across from CryEngine to Lumberyard. What Amazon are able to do server side and engine side with the network support is massively important to the point they should theoretically be in the best position in the world in providing games servers due to their business model.

What you are seeing in terms of the rework is also literally no different to that of Beyond Good & Evil 2 which has been binned a number of times itself also. That is the nature of pre-alpha development which is exactly what 2012 to 2014 was. 2014 they had pretty much nailed down the scope and then planetary tech came along because of the hiring of some specific Crytek employees. This has increased things but most features we have seen so far are actually from the stretch goals. People though have short memories. They forget about features or only read the title of the overlaying feature but we are now seeing the subsets of the tech.

Star Marine is still a part of it and always will be in the longer term. It is basically like chucking in COD multiplayer as a side game (they are suggesting in lore it is what the UEE use for training their soldiers) and it could also be a recreational sport similar to us having laser tag, paintball & airsoft. There are a few other games as well then which all play into it.

And what has the cringe of the way they promoted the gameplay of Star Marine got to do with it? Ubi do that with every games release that has multiplayer. Yeah you may not like it but it really doesn't change anything. It also technically didn't get binned as they still like the scripted team play because it shows features to the backers on what can be possible and there will be large role playing orgs doing just this. It is pretty much what MMO's like this are about.

Then add the second game of SQ42. So even if they have spent $100 million. That is what things cost to develop and push the envelope and rebuild engines. Not sure why people are expecting it to be out in two years and new features chucked on and updated. If anything though I would say he wouldn't of got the backing he has now if he went smaller. I certainly backed once I saw how the project was heading. I actually waited till 2014 so I could get to see what the longer term plans were. Yeah they have made mistakes. Growing company from 6 people to 500 is difficult and certainly in a 5 year period.

I also see no reason for Sandy to be brought into it like this. She promotes Star Citizen and get's involved. She does a pretty good job and get's a few sneak peaks at things etc. So what if it's wife? Why can't someone have a family business now just because it's a game dev company?

They have done plenty with the tech and the engine and for other devs and the people at Amazon they have brought significant advancements who are also utilising some of CIG's tech back into their engine such as the AI subsumption routines and the animation routines (this got added to lumberyard last month). I know a few devs now looking at Lumberyard as a viable option because of things such as this. Some very powerful tools are there to get things significantly improved.

 

[deuse]

I watched my friend play SC last night(he loves it) but to me it's nothing more then a tech demo at this time.
I hope it does come out next year and I will most likely buy it if it does.

 

[Raumarik]

Squadron 42 demo/info confirmed at Christmas hopeful a sample mission and nothing too spoiler loaded!

player colony confirmed as the game changer? according to reddit it might be, not sure how is feel about that.. OCUK/PAGAN colony could be a laugh though.

 

[NeoWave]

Squadron 42 demo/info confirmed at Christmas hopeful a sample mission and nothing too spoiler loaded!

I look forward to it. I still have my account from the free to play things, but I ain't a backer, but I'm guessing it will be available to everyone?

player colony confirmed as the game changer? according to reddit it might be, not sure how is feel about that.. OCUK/PAGAN colony could be a laugh though.

Player Colony? Like Colonia or the forthcoming Fleet Carriers in Elite Dangerous or something more player controlled; eg over the entire colony economy and building location?

 

[Raumarik]

small outposts on planets I guess, previously I don't think we were going to be able to have buildings other than our hangars which were basically instanced within cities and asteroids.

implementation of this week be very important though tbh. especially with small instances to begin with. wild be frustrating if not all the group you play with are visible etc

 

[humbug]

We should have our Colony on Daymar.

 

[jonneymendoza]

None of what you replied with changes what I stated previous though.

And you are wrong about the engine. CryEngine has it's issues, so would have Unity or Unreal Engine (especially as UE4 wasn't about then). The move to Lumberyard is excellent and it is the same base code. It is the reason it only took a few days to move things across from CryEngine to Lumberyard. What Amazon are able to do server side and engine side with the network support is massively important to the point they should theoretically be in the best position in the world in providing games servers due to their business model.

What you are seeing in terms of the rework is also literally no different to that of Beyond Good & Evil 2 which has been binned a number of times itself also. That is the nature of pre-alpha development which is exactly what 2012 to 2014 was. 2014 they had pretty much nailed down the scope and then planetary tech came along because of the hiring of some specific Crytek employees. This has increased things but most features we have seen so far are actually from the stretch goals. People though have short memories. They forget about features or only read the title of the overlaying feature but we are now seeing the subsets of the tech.

Star Marine is still a part of it and always will be in the longer term. It is basically like chucking in COD multiplayer as a side game (they are suggesting in lore it is what the UEE use for training their soldiers) and it could also be a recreational sport similar to us having laser tag, paintball & airsoft. There are a few other games as well then which all play into it.

And what has the cringe of the way they promoted the gameplay of Star Marine got to do with it? Ubi do that with every games release that has multiplayer. Yeah you may not like it but it really doesn't change anything. It also technically didn't get binned as they still like the scripted team play because it shows features to the backers on what can be possible and there will be large role playing orgs doing just this. It is pretty much what MMO's like this are about.

Then add the second game of SQ42. So even if they have spent $100 million. That is what things cost to develop and push the envelope and rebuild engines. Not sure why people are expecting it to be out in two years and new features chucked on and updated. If anything though I would say he wouldn't of got the backing he has now if he went smaller. I certainly backed once I saw how the project was heading. I actually waited till 2014 so I could get to see what the longer term plans were. Yeah they have made mistakes. Growing company from 6 people to 500 is difficult and certainly in a 5 year period.

I also see no reason for Sandy to be brought into it like this. She promotes Star Citizen and get's involved. She does a pretty good job and get's a few sneak peaks at things etc. So what if it's wife? Why can't someone have a family business now just because it's a game dev company?

They have done plenty with the tech and the engine and for other devs and the people at Amazon they have brought significant advancements who are also utilising some of CIG's tech back into their engine such as the AI subsumption routines and the animation routines (this got added to lumberyard last month). I know a few devs now looking at Lumberyard as a viable option because of things such as this. Some very powerful tools are there to get things significantly improved.

So that original pitch of releasing it in 2-3 years time was a lie?

 

[Curlyriff]

So that original pitch of releasing it in 2-3 years time was a lie?

Urghh, so many times over so many things. Again this is irrelevant to what I stated. And to that in short. No they were based on a completely different game that was originally backed. It has been clarified via all the different strech goal campaigns and the showing of new tech with them stating as much that the initial 2-3 years was for a different animal.

It is all well and good bringing a statement up but at least use it in context with the facts of what have developed over the last 5 years.

Their mistake more than anything was increasing scope because they felt that the fund allowed. They should have built what they said. Released it back in 2014 and moved on. They would have had $50 million left over to walk away with and be done. What they did instead was offer to either keep going or change scope to suit the new budget with telling the community there would be delays and similar. We had the ability to vote on it if we wanted.

They gave new predictions of 2016 pre-procedural tech but with the other stretch goals in mind. Then since then it's been more open date wise with nothing really given and we have had the schedules for the last 9 months etc. Not really sure what else you want but the original pitch was for a game based on the projected funds. Simple as that, doesn't make it a lie though.

 

[humbug]

I wish i could show you guys standing on the north pole of Yela looking at Crusader in the distance peering over a mountain range with the Sun very low on the horizon to my right casting long shadows.

What a vista.

Soon....