******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******

Ok, this is fair enough, the persistence thing, also the thing that is most difficult and critical to server meshing.

Chris has promised this in one form or another for the past 6 years.

2015 "P Cache"
2018 "I Cache"

In the Chairman's letter Chris admitted, for the first time that all that ^^^^ failed and was scrapped

2021 "Entity Graph"
2022 "Persistent Entity Streaming"

I think they are the same thing, this they say they have working, this is what we will be testing in 3.18, in a few weeks.

Ok, there are multiple ways one can look at this, incompetence, lies or R&D, either way they made promises they haven't kept, at least up to now, again is this malicious or overconfidence?

Whatever it is its this sort of thing that can kill a project, for a large publisher like EA they will have put that R&D in, find it didn't work and re-evaluate, is it worth more R&D, that's more money, more time, or is it too expensive and with that the whole project is canned?

Those are also questions for us as backers, its already cost $500 Million and 9 years, 6 if you want to charitable and say the development of Star Citizen as we know it now didn't start until 2016.

Because if this was EA it would have been canned, and this is why the only way we are going to get a game like Star Citizen is the way its being done.

Reddit - Dive into anything

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As i said, Persistent Entity Streaming testing starts in a few weeks, we haven't got long to wait to find out....
 
maybe I just lack ambition but I genuinely do not see the need for every item to be tracked. indeed I am biased perhaps because I am a loner when I game and the notion in *any* game of me building a house and some scrote coming and burning it down whilst I am asleep is a huge turn off for me

but to me it would seem far simpler for each person to have some cloud storage attached to their account and for what I build or dropped to be stored on my account.... no one else needs to see the coffee cup I dropped in the woods (that is the one which stuck in my mind in a CR talk)

of course IF I am online and another player is in my instance then sure, that cup will need to migrate to their account too when we are synced together. also in terms of base building some jiggery pokery would be needed so that we can't build in the same space as each other (hypothetically) so here database zoning would be needed.
some stuff would need to be tracked , if there were competitive PvP missions with rewards etc but even elite manages that (they did a competition to win an Nvidia GPU years ago with tracked items in the game).

but trying to track EVERYTHING just seems to be unnecessarily complex imo and is the other side of the elite coin which is so bare bones that so little is tracked that the game feels dead.

somewhere in the middle.ses better to me.

TLDR leverage our own storage space to persistently track items important to OUR game.
 
bigmike20vt said:
maybe I just lack ambition but I genuinely do not see the need for every item to be tracked. indeed I am biased perhaps because I am a loner when I game and the notion in *any* game of me building a house and some scrote coming and burning it down whilst I am asleep is a huge turn off for me

but to me it would seem far simpler for each person to have some cloud storage attached to their account and for what I build or dropped to be stored on my account.... no one else needs to see the coffee cup I dropped in the woods (that is the one which stuck in my mind in a CR talk)

of course IF I am online and another player is in my instance then sure, that cup will need to migrate to their account too when we are synced together. also in terms of base building some jiggery pokery would be needed so that we can't build in the same space as each other (hypothetically) so here database zoning would be needed.
some stuff would need to be tracked , if there were competitive PvP missions with rewards etc but even elite manages that (they did a competition to win an Nvidia GPU years ago with tracked items in the game).

but trying to track EVERYTHING just seems to be unnecessarily complex imo and is the other side of the elite coin which is so bare bones that so little is tracked that the game feels dead.

somewhere in the middle.ses better to me.

TLDR leverage our own storage space to persistently track items important to OUR game.
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Just use a major landing zone or space station as cloud storage
 
npc crew is something I am really interested in - pretty much on a par with VR for me (which for me is massive)

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Star Citizen AI Updates - Running Ships With NPC Crew & AI Blades

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listening to this I could be listening to talk of noc crew in Elite Dangerous.............. I just hope CIG deliver in a way that FD never have.

(incase you have not figured it our i am a devout single player in my gaming unless it is with real friends but i still want to be able to have access to all the toys)
 
bigmike20vt said:
but to me it would seem far simpler for each person to have some cloud storage attached to their account and for what I build or dropped to be stored on my account.... no one else needs to see the coffee cup I dropped in the woods (that is the one which stuck in my mind in a CR talk)
Click to expand...
I get where you're coming from, but thats such a simplistic cop-out solution that wont be favourable to the community, and less so by CR.
Huge near-realistic systems, 1:1 ships, planetary landing... and an infinite bag of holding that teleports the players content elsewhere. ;)

I suspect as the tech evolves in complexity, things will start with inefficient perma-existence and object culling in busy zones, and eventually move towards something like accelerated degradation, where your cup-type items disappear after a month, wrecks after a year.
They just need sensible plausible solutions, even if that means roaming trash drones on planets, to maintain efficiency and believability.

humbug said:
Those are also questions for us as backers, its already cost $500 Million and 9 years, 6 if you want to charitable and say the development of Star Citizen as we know it now didn't start until 2016.
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Being a little pedantic, but the amount raised ($465m) isnt the same as what its cost.

Rest isnt specifically replying to any specific post/person, just the recent topics...

Fwiw, there are aspects of SC which i specifically backed because of, which seem like they've been shelved, and theres sod all i can really do about it. The game is more like something i'd watch others play, than want to play myself. The main selling point to me was my ability to use the 'pve/pvp slider' to make the game more like a coop game, instead it looks like im forced into PvP, griefing, and everything else that goes with it. Even cowering in safe UEE space doesnt stop players from coming in and being a jerk, whereas AI would stick to the script. I dont like the chaos some people choose to create.

Dunno if anyone else has done the studio tour at Manchester, i went in March '17 and theres a few planetary scenes ive never seen in ATV/ISC, not tons, but the point being they're not showing us stuff thats for SQ42 so basing SC progress on only what we have access to and we know is next up, doesnt mean its all they have. That massive asset leak around summer '16 should prove as much, having a load of Vanduul ship mid-development, plenty still unseen 6 years on.
I dunno how many planets are occupied in the lore, but i suspect few systems will be as populated as Stanton, so could theoretically have 75% of planets proc-gen and being fairly quick to generate and dress. My main concern at the Letter's beta mention, was how few gameplay loops are implemented at a basic level. Mining seems pretty deep, but no Orion tech, Salvage is close, Refuelling is in, Hauling is i guess, and then some basic combat stuff. The game always seems to be 3-5yrs away, so im surprised to see the word beta used in any way that doesnt start 'a long way off from'.
 
PaulC2K said:
I get where you're coming from, but thats such a simplistic cop-out solution that wont be favourable to the community, and less so by CR.
Huge near-realistic systems, 1:1 ships, planetary landing... and an infinite bag of holding that teleports the players content elsewhere. ;)

I suspect as the tech evolves in complexity, things will start with inefficient perma-existence and object culling in busy zones, and eventually move towards something like accelerated degradation, where your cup-type items disappear after a month, wrecks after a year.
They just need sensible plausible solutions, even if that means roaming trash drones on planets, to maintain efficiency and believability.

-----

Fwiw, there are aspects of SC which i specifically backed because of, which seem like they've been shelved, and theres sod all i can really do about it. The game is more like something i'd watch others play, than want to play myself. The main selling point to me was my ability to use the 'pve/pvp slider' to make the game more like a coop game, instead it looks like im forced into PvP, griefing, and everything else that goes with it. Even cowering in safe UEE space doesnt stop players from coming in and being a jerk, whereas AI would stick to the script. I dont like the chaos some people choose to create.
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I am fully with you on the slider - it was a big deal for me as well. I am aware i am not the core demographic for SC, no interest in player guilds etc etc and i really dislike feeling forced into meta builds because anything else will get owned by meta ships. I also dislike griefers and PvP in general if i am honest unless it is specifically made for it with zero loss and quick respwns (something i dont want in SC)

so the slider for me would have been great.

players have shown in multiple games they dont want to play by a script in plausible ways. NPCs however do not need to be entertained so if made well will to what they are meant to. I respect MMOs but generally not wanting to play them. In SC and S42 all i hoped for was a spiritual successor to wing commander and another for privateer. Like i said i am not the core demographic but the slider would have helped deliver what I hoped for.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I am fully with you on the slider - it was a big deal for me as well. I am aware i am not the core demographic for SC, no interest in player guilds etc etc and i really dislike feeling forced into meta builds because anything else will get owned by meta ships. I also dislike griefers and PvP in general if i am honest unless it is specifically made for it with zero loss and quick respwns (something i dont want in SC)

so the slider for me would have been great.

players have shown in multiple games they dont want to play by a script in plausible ways. NPCs however do not need to be entertained so if made well will to what they are meant to. I respect MMOs but generally not wanting to play them. In SC and S42 all i hoped for was a spiritual successor to wing commander and another for privateer. Like i said i am not the core demographic but the slider would have helped deliver what I hoped for.
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The slider would ruin the experience for me . i am glad they got rid of that and just make it so its organic if a place has a pvp battle or not.

Technically there is a organic pvp slider per say.

If someone shoots u down in stanton near a station, they get a crimestat and a bounty on there head. They dont go un-punished and with full persistence and Server meshing coming online soon, a griever wont be able to just alt_f4 if they are getting chased down.

There will be HUGE consequences for grieving/being a bad guy.

Play the current PU build and you will see that most players dont grieve and most players play on the lawful side.

The game wil be perfectly fine playing solo as you wish but just dont expect to fly a idris solo on your own(without real players or npc's)
 
jonneymendoza said:
The slider would ruin the experience for me . i am glad they got rid of that and just make it so its organic if a place has a pvp battle or not.

Technically there is a organic pvp slider per say.

If someone shoots u down in stanton near a station, they get a crimestat and a bounty on there head. They dont go un-punished and with full persistence and Server meshing coming online soon, a griever wont be able to just alt_f4 if they are getting chased down.

There will be HUGE consequences for grieving/being a bad guy.

Play the current PU build and you will see that most players dont grieve and most players play on the lawful side.

The game wil be perfectly fine playing solo as you wish but just dont expect to fly a idris solo on your own(without real players or npc's)
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We will see... I hope you are right about the crime and punishment however the only other game i have to compare it to is Elite Dangerous...... Back in beta with the core backers open was fine (it was all there was for the most part) with most people being respectful and even those who wanted to pew pew they were doing it in a sensible way.

Once the game launched however things changed radically, with people finding every loophole they could to exploit the game to their advantage. FD in their defence tried to get on top of it. ... befroe ultimately giving up . Thankfully ED has private groups so i was able to fashion the game closer to what i hoped for.

I think the PvP slider, so long as it had a cool down would have worked for me without necessarily spoiling it for you (ok you may not have seen me but i would be no loss to you really as i have no interest in engaging with you - no offence meant it is me not you ;) ) but other like minded players would equally have the slider on PvP..... again i would expect a significant cooldown before being allowed to change it from PvP.

but time will tell... hopefully in X years time i can think back to posts like this and admit i was wrong.

as for not flying an idris.... i absolutely dont mind multcrew ships - i even want them - so long as i can employ npcs to do it for me....... Elite was meant to have such a feature but it ended up on the cutting room floor. Elite went an absurd way of all ships being flyable by 1 person.... but at least it meant i can still fly them.

SC clearly wont do this but i am worried that once we get close to launch it is very possible the ships could go multiplayer only....... or at the very least using npcs would put you at a huge disadvantage.
 
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This wouldn't surprise me, it would not be the first time they have been stealth testing things like this, remember 30K crash recovery?

"oh the server 30K'd, i logged back in and i was back in my ship....WTF????"

"Yeah, that's a thing now, we've been testing server crash recovery"

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The reason why Star Citizen 3.17.1 is terrible

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