******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******

[PaulC2K]

Weekly Schedule

Monday, November 24th
10 for the Chairman
Ship Spotlight: Retaliator

Tuesday, November 25th
Ship Spotlight: Gladiator
Fan Spotlight: Fan Ships
Meet the Team Video: Zane Bien
Spectrum Dispatch

Wednesday, November 26th
Ship Spotlight: Xi'An Scout

Thursday, November 27th
Ship Spotlight: Caterpillar
Javelin Post (sale starts 11/28)

Friday, November 28th
Ship Spotlight: Banu Merchantman
Carrack Concept Sale Launch!

The Retaliator one is already up, was pretty sure they'd said we'd hear and see more of the ships in the sale, and then they went on sale, nothing new, and got rather disappointed, so its good to see we've got a whole week in inside looks into them, with the Javelin and Carrack as the big finale too.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14324-Flying-Fortress-The-Aegis-Retaliator

Love the Retaliator, but feel like i know a lot about it already as its so close, but the Banu Merchantman is the one im looking forward to from the spotlights, hopefully we'll see something more than artwork, like an exterior and some interiors modelled.
Bit disappointed theres no Starfarer on the list, its as much a Wave 2 ship as the others, yet its been ignored, while all the rest are there, including the 2 which i'd imagine will be sold mid-Jan ('tali and Gladiator).

 

[PaulC2K]

Spoiler

Oh well, an image will do i guess (same shot as seen on AtV last week or previous, just textured, and boy does it look gooood )

 

[ChrisJSY]

How do you win?

There is really no single aim to the game so you can't win. There is no level to reach.

Nope, it's been said several times before you can't "pay to win" in a game like this,

Gotta quote this for years later when everyone complains they can't compete in combat because half the population got a headstart to the most powerful types of ships.
You'll have people cornering the market early with trade, hauling, cargo, combat etc and you'll have people who start from scratch.

The economy is going to be terrible for those who don't jump ahead with cash and/or buy in game credits, you wait for it. There's a reason other games try do avoid this and what makes SC so special to not suffer from it?
See you in 2016, wait, 2017...maybe 18

Even if I'm wrong, your reasoning for their not having no pay to win is absolutely terrible, just because there's no "level" or "end game" in your own minds or goal to reach? It's still a competitive game where one can beat someone else.

 

[PaulC2K]

Gotta quote this for years later when everyone complains they can't compete in combat because half the population got a headstart to the most powerful types of ships.
You'll have people cornering the market early with trade, hauling, cargo, combat etc and you'll have people who start from scratch.

The economy is going to be terrible for those who don't jump ahead with cash and/or buy in game credits, you wait for it. There's a reason other games try do avoid this and what makes SC so special to not suffer from it?
See you in 2016, wait, 2017...maybe 18

Even if I'm wrong, your reasoning for their not having no pay to win is absolutely terrible, just because there's no "level" or "end game" in your own minds or goal to reach? It's still a competitive game where one can beat someone else.

Yeah... you're completely wrong. Im getting sick and tired of seeing uneducated know-it-alls decide they're so smart, and the people who've bothered to educate themselves understand what they're doing and why, are oh so stupid for being fine with these decisions. If you want to make statements, at least have the decency to make sure you're not spouting absolute rubbish!

Im done correcting people who make false statements due to stupidity or lack of interest in checking their info. If people want to ASK about certain things, thats fine, but correcting the people who are telling those who understand the situation, that they're wrong... screw that!

 

[GiraffePencils]

Yeah... you're completely wrong. Im getting sick and tired of seeing uneducated know-it-alls decide they're so smart, and the people who've bothered to educate themselves understand what they're doing and why, are oh so stupid for being fine with these decisions. If you want to make statements, at least have the decency to make sure you're not spouting absolute rubbish!

Im done correcting people who make false statements due to stupidity or lack of interest in checking their info. If people want to ASK about certain things, thats fine, but correcting the people who are telling those who understand the situation, that they're wrong... screw that!

look, someone else with the reason I stopped going on the RSI forums

 

[Maverick2332]

Even if I'm wrong, your reasoning for their not having no pay to win is absolutely terrible.

This sentence makes little sense.

 

[Raumarik]

Gotta quote this for years later when everyone complains they can't compete in combat because half the population got a head start to the most powerful types of ships.
You'll have people cornering the market early with trade, hauling, cargo, combat etc and you'll have people who start from scratch.

The economy is going to be terrible for those who don't jump ahead with cash and/or buy in game credits, you wait for it. There's a reason other games try do avoid this and what makes SC so special to not suffer from it?
See you in 2016, wait, 2017...maybe 18

Even if I'm wrong, your reasoning for their not having no pay to win is absolutely terrible, just because there's no "level" or "end game" in your own minds or goal to reach? It's still a competitive game where one can beat someone else.

Please explain how it's pay to win? I've watched your vids Chris, I respect your opinion so genuinely fire away.

Why I'm not worried about the way it's being handled. Now I realise that putting this out there first makes your life easy, you can simply nit-pick at what I write, but here goes.

We can pledge for ships, we can even promise to join up together in groups but a fighter can still beat larger ship as so much of the mechanics in the game come down to piloting skill. Bottom line is that a garbage pilot isn't going to be much use even in the best ship, but a good pilot will. Does that mean it's entirely down to skill? Absolutely not, but remember that as I've said on the RSI site several times, the instant the PU starts all the current weaponry, shields, power plants etc become outdated as people start developing more powerful, resilient versions, that is ultimately where the games strength is - even with "lifetime insurance" the gear is going to be under powered almost straight off the starting line and that guy coming in at the 11th hour in his Aurora will be able to catch up and overtake me in a matter of days if he's got more free time than me - if anything this game is "play to win" just as Eve Online is. The more time you've got to pump into the game, the easier your fights will become, even if we completely ignore pilot skill. The ships will be reasonably balanced at the start of PU, but expect that to change quickly.

Your argument for people being unable to compete with others doesn't really make any sense, the player base will make up less than 10% of the in-game population, nobody will be able to flood a market in the way you're suggesting. People, like in Eliteangerous will essentially be competing with themselves for trades etc.

There is no perfect balance to be had between time rich, cash poor players and cash rich, time poor players but at least Star Citizen is giving it a shot. I've never quite understood why people assume pay to win is any worse than play to win? Perhaps it's because I've never been a student with near unlimited time to play games, I've always had a job and always had to scrap together a few hours a night or at the weekends. Personally I like the way SC is handling this, limiting real cash for in-game cash transactions whilst still allowing cash rich players to do so in an effort to help fund the long term support of the game.

So pay to win? perhaps if you focus on the first 24 hours post PU start, but longer than that? Absolutely not. The people who will win are those with the best group to fly with, whether that's in fighters, a convoy or on multicrew ships. This isn't a solo game, this isn't a game which is going to come down to who has the biggest ship and I personally relish the idea of going after the huge expensive target ships like the Idris and Javelin, with a group of friends in our pew pew fighters and bombers.

 

[kablooey]

I personally relish the idea of going after the huge expensive target ships like the Idris and Javelin, with a group of friends in our pew pew fighters and bombers.

I am so in! ...With my new Gladiator. lol

 

[Curunen]

Gotta quote this for years later when everyone complains they can't compete in combat because half the population got a headstart to the most powerful types of ships.
You'll have people cornering the market early with trade, hauling, cargo, combat etc and you'll have people who start from scratch.

The economy is going to be terrible for those who don't jump ahead with cash and/or buy in game credits, you wait for it. There's a reason other games try do avoid this and what makes SC so special to not suffer from it?
See you in 2016, wait, 2017...maybe 18

Even if I'm wrong, your reasoning for their not having no pay to win is absolutely terrible, just because there's no "level" or "end game" in your own minds or goal to reach? It's still a competitive game where one can beat someone else.

What on Earth does "win" mean in a sandbox where you're designed to live/roleplay as your character, among countless NPCs.

I do completely disagree with that last statement - who can beat who in what situation? What are your goals in game, and how are they affected by other people's achievements/resources?
In the case of things like racing - that's a goal to work towards, and I doubt racing ships will take very long to acquire. In the case of combat - crew other ships, work your way up, enjoy the experience. Does it matter if you're not commander of a fleet and owning a Javelin Destroyer from day one? Does it somehow ruin your enjoyment of the game.

If that's the case then real life is pay2win, if someone is lucky enough to inherit a fortune from rich family. But do we really care if some celebrity is driving an expensive car, or that Bill Gates has however many billion dollars? Are we somehow "losing" because they are "winning"?

I believe this senseless "beat the game" ideology has been brainwashed into use with all the nonsense in the past - "I beat the game", "I beat other players"... the whole thing is completely meaningless in the case of what SC is aspiring to be.

 

[ChrisJSY]

Yeah... you're completely wrong. Im getting sick and tired of seeing uneducated know-it-alls decide they're so smart, and the people who've bothered to educate themselves understand what they're doing and why, are oh so stupid for being fine with these decisions. If you want to make statements, at least have the decency to make sure you're not spouting absolute rubbish!

Im done correcting people who make false statements due to stupidity or lack of interest in checking their info. If people want to ASK about certain things, thats fine, but correcting the people who are telling those who understand the situation, that they're wrong... screw that!

Everything you've said is a belief, not fact, you believe this is how it will play out. You believe the devs as if it's gospel and as if developers can't make mistakes or overplay certain things or be incapable of doing what they said they would.

I'm being cautious and using my prior experience in games as a belief and assumption as well, because I know I can't ultimately be right until it actually releases and we do know for fact, right?
But to think that you are actually correct before knowing the truth? I hope I misread what you said because that's not right.

We'll, I'd love to respond to the 4-5 people who replied to me but whenever that happens someone gets a bit sensitive, can't handle it and decides to say "Oh will you stop it it's been x/y/z pages of this".

So, I'm just going to wait until release and see what happens.
Also, pay2win isn't meant to be taken literally, it's synonymous with paid shortcuts. Something a lot of people have issues with, but this is a different kind of animal, they're pledges - but you get a shiny toy with it.

PS. If it matters that much those that want a dialogue can email me, because I do have responses.

 

[PaulC2K]

Everything you've said is a belief, not fact, you believe this is how it will play out. You believe the devs as if it's gospel and as if developers can't make mistakes or overplay certain things or be incapable of doing what they said they would.

You cant possibly combat the facts about how the developers say they're going to build the system, by saying well maybe it wont end up that way, so therefore lets just assume everything we know about the game is false.

Its not like they're saying it'll be the best game in the world and no game will ever better it. They've said how they'll combat certain concerns. Its not belief, its explaining what they have said they're doing. But simply ignore everything they've said they plan to do, because it hasnt been done yet, therefore might not happen, is cynical. To decide its wont be how they say, and it'll be the complete opposite is just uneducated drivel.

I have a source for my 'belief', a source with a proven track record, you just have negativity, baseless unwanted uneducated negativity.

 

[ChrisJSY]

I have a source for my 'belief', a source with a proven track record, you just have negativity, baseless unwanted uneducated negativity.

Cynical because it's happened before, lots of promise and a weak delivery.
How are you certain and why are you so offensive about it? Can't you talk calmly without sounding like a fan boy, because you are bordering on a clichè.

Having concerns and issues with something should be met with skepticism and thought about how it's happened before with rational counter arguments, not blind devotion and an offensive nature.

 

[Raumarik]

My biggest worry isn't about individual modules e.g. FPS, hangar or space flight but how they join them up tbh. Always had been, I think they will do a good job on most modules from what we've seen but it's critical that it feels like one game, not a collection of vaguely connected mini games. Wasn't entirely won over by the atmospheric entry shown at the last PAX but still better than many games.

 

[PaulC2K]

Cynical because it's happened before, lots of promise and a weak delivery.
How are you certain and why are you so offensive about it? Can't you talk calmly without sounding like a fan boy, because you are bordering on a clichè.

Having concerns and issues with something should be met with skepticism and thought about how it's happened before with rational counter arguments, not blind devotion and an offensive nature.

Why? Because for starters, people like you come into these threads armed with a slither of knowledge, then start telling people how its all wrong, how this and that will happen.

You state that as if its fact, when the 'facts' you spew aren't even plausible. If the CIG devs had said you can buy unlimited credits and ships, then to state it could become pay to win, fine. But they've said 2 things on this subject. 1) you'll be able to buy credits 2) there will be realistic limits.

You want to acknowledge only one of those statements, and completely disregard the second.

So excuse me if my knowledge of the matter makes you uncomfortable and need to throw childish insults, but ignorance of the fact is no excuse for telling people their wrong to trust someone, when you are selectively trusting some statements, being cynical on others, and are highlighting issues which show you have a lack of understanding about the universe they're building.

 

[ChrisJSY]

Why? Because for starters, people like you come into these threads armed with a slither of knowledge, then start telling people how its all wrong, how this and that will happen.

You state that as if its fact, when the 'facts' you spew aren't even plausible. If the CIG devs had said you can buy unlimited credits and ships, then to state it could become pay to win, fine. But they've said 2 things on this subject. 1) you'll be able to buy credits 2) there will be realistic limits.

You want to acknowledge only one of those statements, and completely disregard the second.

So excuse me if my knowledge of the matter makes you uncomfortable and need to throw childish insults, but ignorance of the fact is no excuse for telling people their wrong to trust someone, when you are selectively trusting some statements, being cynical on others, and are highlighting issues which show you have a lack of understanding about the universe they're building.

Well it's disappointing to know you're getting angry and can't write a non emotional post, as well as not being able to take an insult but at the same time do the very same thing. Read your god damned post back to yourself and see how much double standards you hold.

Hypocrite, I'm done, we'll just have to rub each others faces in it when the game releases. I'm happy to admit I might be wrong but you're so adamant you're right. What an attitude.
Don't bother replying, I won't see it.

 

[PaulC2K]

Well it's disappointing to know you're getting angry and can't write a non emotional post, as well as not being able to take an insult but at the same time do the very same thing. Read your god damned post back to yourself and see how much double standards you hold.

Hypocrite, I'm done, we'll just have to rub each others faces in it when the game releases. I'm happy to admit I might be wrong but you're so adamant you're right. What an attitude.
Don't bother replying, I won't see it.

Oh look, yet again not a jot to say on the fact that none of your complaints had any merit, and it was just uneducated assumptions. Not 1 comment from ANY of the replies saying you dont know what you're talking about, just brush that aside and get defensive when told they're uneducated on the subject they're wrongly telling others they're wrong about.

Cheerio.

 

[Raumarik]

Anyway moving back onto other things.. Gladiator focus is out and it's a bit pants lol





Nice to see those pictures, hadn't personally seen theme previously.

The Gladiator is proof that a small ship can pack a big punch. Designed to operate against capital ships and installations, the Gladiator is the UEE’s premiere strike craft. Star Citizen’s world is full of capital ships, from frigates like the Idris to massive carriers like the Bengal… and we want to give you a way to blow them up. With the ability to conduct bombing runs with a manned turret on its back, a skilled Gladiator crew should be able to prove that David can defeat Goliath! Trading some speed and maneuverability for upgrade space, the Gladiator can also be customized for peacetime roles like explorer or support roles such as command-and-control platform.

Glad they've confirmed it can be modified, although more worried than ever that it's going to fly like a truck.

 

[Farseer]

Anyway moving back onto other things.. Gladiator focus is out and it's a bit pants lol





Nice to see those pictures, hadn't personally seen theme previously.



Glad they've confirmed it can be modified, although more worried than ever that it's going to fly like a truck.

Yeah, basically the same information we already knew and one new in-hangar screenshot. It does look great still though from concept to engine

The wording has always been it's slow moving ship when it was heavy with a single engine. However, the (TBC) stats still has it as being very lightweight with 2xTR4's whereas the recent magazine article had it as 2xTR2's. Even though the stats are always TBC I would have thought they would have put the latest revisions there as it’s up for sale again.

 

[Raumarik]

I've given up on the stats page these days, it's pretty much always wrong it seems! I base my decisions on how it's described role wise from now on

 

[Farseer]

I've given up on the stats page these days, it's pretty much always wrong it seems! I base my decisions on how it's described role wise from now on

Same here but still I would have thought with the ship spotlight it would be a little bit more up to date.

So, how many ships will survive the Carrack concept sale on Friday?