******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******

humbug said:
For the vulture they showed physical boxes being created from hull striping, they are dispensed like the boxes in the drug labs, they then need to be handled for storage.

If those boxes remain persistent, along with all the other cargo boxes also being physicalized i'm happy, i like the idea that wrecked ships spill their cargo for me to transfer to my ship and they become mine.

What has been removed from 3.18 is Persistent Hangers, again...
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Tbh I had thought persistent hangers was meant to be 3.17 and got removed then? I am not sure that is critical but I expect the re-worked Lorville would bring that possibly as that has complete re-design to allow persistent hanger modules and people to have specific locations in cities as their habs so would come as one block later, again with that being something after initial persistence?

There is one thing i noticed about the Mule, hand carry size boxes stored in its side racks de-physicalize when you place them, so they don't jiggle about and fall out when you're driving around. they re-physicalize when you go to pick them up.

I think that's important because if you're storing the larger 1m^2 boxes in cargo bays and they are physicalized.... well we all know what happens to the smaller carry boxes, they move about, they react to the movement of the ship, you don't want that...
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The problem with despawning boxes in larger ships that are in hangers when flying means people are in the hangers, they can't just despawn them because when you stop flying how do they respawn if 5 players are stood in the way. It has to be physicalised. So the principle I assume is that if they are within in the cargo grid and the refactor works they are locked in place and don't jiggle? So that is hopefully what the refactor fixes with it.

Edit: Hacking, Zero G push/pull, FPS radar and scanning were removed going back to it but that was not recent and none of them headline features that would significantly change things in my opinion. Although hopefully FPS radar and tbh general scanning and radar is in 4.0 because it would be good to find wrecks that persist for instance.
 
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It was in 3.17, it got moved to 3.18 and then removed, its now disappeared to reappear in 3.19, probably.

Curlyriff said:
The problem with despawning boxes in larger ships that are in hangers when flying means people are in the hangers, they can't just despawn them because when you stop flying how do they respawn if 5 players are stood in the way. It has to be physicalised. So the principle I assume is that if they are within in the cargo grid and the refactor works they are locked in place and don't jiggle? So that is hopefully what the refactor fixes with it.
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Yeah, if i have a small vehicle in the back on my MSR it spawns the boxes around it, it does recognise there is something there and how much volume its taking up, i doubt for now at least buying cargo at an outpost will have NPC's loading up your ship manually, so if you're stood in the middle of my cargo bay you're not going anywhere after i bought cargo, weird, but baby steps. I have no doubt the eventual intention is to have you, your mates or NPC's load up physical boxes from a storage depot.
 
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Curlyriff said:
I don't get your point to this. It was always clear it would be multiple patches with lots to come but persistence starts with 3.18 and anything in inventory personal and ships. It also has persistence for anything dropped on that particular server you are on unless you try to drop 200 cans or whatever and they will be cleaned up.

This was always the stated goal for the last 12 months till server meshing works where you then have multiple servers linked to then have the replication do just that and it replicate between servers. Then dynamic meshing later. Of course it wasn't all going to come in one patch?

What it does also allow for is persistent ship wrecks for salvage and allows for the cargo refactor where you actually have physical cargo in ships shown and persisting including when ships are stored at space stations or you log off.

It also allows damage maps to persist so when you use the salvage mechanic to repair your hull that shows until you reclaim or similar.

So yeah there is a lot that doesn't work still of course such as the wear and tear system for characters, the MFD in ships with their settings, mining head and scanner settings. Those are where teams are just getting these tools and need to refactor their end to take PES into account which couldn't be done prior to it being built.

It funny cause I've not really played for like 12 months cause there been no big change but 3.18 will be where I finally start to jump in.

It also doesn't change the server side elements that were needed to start meshing design. That isn't the same as linking gameplay to PES, it is engineering side and why as stated they can move onto engineering server meshing and that was explained in last weeks ISC also.
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Honestly i assumed PES in its complete form would come in 3.18, that's my fault i know :)

Its the way CR talks about these things, the coffee cup thing, in the same vain as 3.18 with Server Meshing coming a couple of patches there after, 3.18 was meant to come at the end of June with up to 3 months of testing, its now October, just about and testing hasn't started yet, add to that with PES actually being a series of steps before we can move to the next stage it just looks like a few months to get beyond PES is now a year, maybe more, the rest of it, before we get to Pyro another year +, something CR initially said would be 2018, and then 2019, at the 2019 CitCon they did a pyro thing, here we are in 2022 and its seeming like 2024.

That is the problem for me.
 
humbug said:
Honestly i assumed PES in its complete form would come in 3.18, that's my fault i know :)

Its the way CR talks about these things, the coffee cup thing, in the same vain as 3.18 with Server Meshing coming a couple of patches there after, 3.18 was meant to come at the end of June with up to 3 months of testing, its now October, just about and testing hasn't started yet, add to that with PES actually being a series of steps before we can move to the next stage it just looks like a few months to get beyond PES is now a year, maybe more, the rest of it, before we get to Pyro another year +, something CR initially said would be 2018, and then 2019, at the 2019 CitCon they did a pyro thing, here we are in 2022 and its seeming like 2024.

That is the problem for me.
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In fairness the coffee cup thing is a thing we just wont get back to server generally to see that cause of other parts and that mostly comes down to log in logic but although the base for that is updated it wont work and be something till server meshing is done and we are then logging in via shard with multiple servers because you have to consider the commercial side.

  • A server has a finite number of people and that is 100, that has cost X to it
  • You then have someone leave that server and anther person fills that spot
  • You want to log back into said server but now all the slots are full, CIG either has to
    • get the server to make a copy of another server to allow you to enter and you would be person 1 in said server and so they need their entity graph to repopulate a server which could take 10mins as it transfer data back (time taken based on the crash recovery spoken about in SCL)
    • Or they make you wait for another player to disconnect, but if that person disconnects because of 30k their slot is held for 10mins approx.
  • The cost of spinning up a new server for the one person to have the instance they previously had is costly because it needs to be a new instance and not just placing you on a slot that is already empty.
  • It would lead to more servers at lower pop as people come and go and the system needs to track multiple states for each person
This makes consideration that each server in the shard would hold 100 players say and then you transfer from server to server as you move through so if there is a server for every planet then there could be 400 players on a shard and so now your login flow to that shard means there are 4x less different instances of the data being created and so the costs could then be reduced. Thus being able to log in and also find a space on said server may be possible then. Add to that a possible pop cap increase come then because the data overhead should reduce you might get 200 player per server and then you are at 8x less instances.

But yeah a little theoretical but principle that was why from a commercial perspective. In essence getting double the population on a server should have halved their server costs assuming the same server type is spinning up from AWS side.

In terms of Pyro, the system seems like it pretty much all there etc and we going to see a huge amount of it come CitCon and so hopefully 4.0 is only a few quarters away. Q2 next year in my view most likely as that gives 6 months of development with the assumption that 3.18 drops at IAE and a 3.18.1 drops end of December.
 
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A new thing I hadn't picked up on was, you can now surrender via the crime terminals and go straight to jail, with a reduction to your time. On top of CS1 and 2 only being fines now strikes me as a far better situation.
 
humbug said:
Honestly i assumed PES in its complete form would come in 3.18, that's my fault i know :)

Its the way CR talks about these things, the coffee cup thing, in the same vain as 3.18 with Server Meshing coming a couple of patches there after, 3.18 was meant to come at the end of June with up to 3 months of testing, its now October, just about and testing hasn't started yet, add to that with PES actually being a series of steps before we can move to the next stage it just looks like a few months to get beyond PES is now a year, maybe more, the rest of it, before we get to Pyro another year +, something CR initially said would be 2018, and then 2019, at the 2019 CitCon they did a pyro thing, here we are in 2022 and its seeming like 2024.

That is the problem for me.
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The tech comes in 3.18 and only salvaging and cargo boxes will use it.
Its up to the other areas of the game to use it now.

CR is the biggest lier of them all or very OPTIMISTIC. Or the people around him are lying to him...

Pryo in a few querters? haha no chance @Curlyriff .2025 for pyro lol.
 
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Yeah, they were quite clear about this in one of the more recent updates. That they've finished the tools for teams to Start to use. Before then it sounded as if they were in full swing using them. Same with salvaging, it went form being fully functional to a tiny singular part of it. Repair your damaged hull, check. Step in the right direction etc. but I'm really not sure when that will be useful in the current system.

I've always had the impression that it's the old chestnut of, sales and management promising everything, on any timescale to get the sale. And then leaving it up to Infra and the Devs to make it happen.

jonneymendoza said:
The tech comes in 3.18 and only salvaging and cargo boxes will use it.
Its up to the other areas of the game to use it now.

CR is the biggest lier of them all or very OPTIMISTIC. Or the people around him are lying to him...
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Cantankerous said:
Yeah, they were quite clear about this in one of the more recent updates. That they've finished the tools for teams to Start to use. Before then it sounded as if they were in full swing using them. Same with salvaging, it went form being fully functional to a tiny singular part of it. Repair your damaged hull, check. Step in the right direction etc. but I'm really not sure when that will be useful in the current system.

I've always had the impression that it's the old chestnut of, sales and management promising everything, on any timescale to get the sale. And then leaving it up to Infra and the Devs to make it happen.
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Quite the opposite with salvaging. That’s more a t1 then a t0 of salvaging. We even get basic hull repairs out of it.

When mining was first introduced, it was just hand mining in the first instance
 
Delays of Pyro and Server Meshing aside, 3.18 looks like it should be good. Changing low level Crimestat so they can just be paid off is nice, the surrender button is handy to have as an option, caves will be nice to explore, more missions at Orison (similar but smaller scale to Siege from the looks of things. Big thumbs up there from me), the PTV race track and some more support for initial salvage gameplay. Sounds like there will be a fair bit to play around with.
 
PinkFloyd said:
Delays of Pyro and Server Meshing aside, 3.18 looks like it should be good. Changing low level Crimestat so they can just be paid off is nice, the surrender button is handy to have as an option, caves will be nice to explore, more missions at Orison (similar but smaller scale to Siege from the looks of things. Big thumbs up there from me), the PTV race track and some more support for initial salvage gameplay. Sounds like there will be a fair bit to play around with.
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And the new derelict site with 3 types of missions to do there
 
jonneymendoza said:
The tech comes in 3.18 and only salvaging and cargo boxes will use it.
Its up to the other areas of the game to use it now.

CR is the biggest lier of them all or very OPTIMISTIC. Or the people around him are lying to him...

Pryo in a few querters? haha no chance @Curlyriff .2025 for pyro lol.
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The hardest part of server meshing is getting the entity graph running proper and then the hand over from one server to another. Beyond that the server meshing part on the server side itself isn't the hard part. We are still literally getting what CR said for PES and 3.18. Nothing there has changed beyond it is a further quarter late to what he suggested.

Same with salvaging, it went form being fully functional to a tiny singular part of it. Repair your damaged hull, check. Step in the right direction etc. but I'm really not sure when that will be useful in the current system.
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That just hasn't been true. Since a year ago it has always been hull stripping only with all the information that CIG has discussed and presented. Yes it is a small tiny part and I wouldn't even call it a full Tier 0 but that has always been the case for what CIG have stated and wanted in the first iteration.

Quite the opposite with salvaging. That’s more a t1 then a t0 of salvaging. We even get basic hull repairs out of it.

When mining was first introduced, it was just hand mining in the first instance
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Nah rubbish. It not even a proper Tier 0. The thing is it never could be because they don't have materials in the game still. It is just hull material, all the same with no real properties or anything. With mining at least there was different rock types and such. Ships from different brands should have different material structures and they should have different properties with different values in terms of density and such. What could then be interesting is that if a different hull material is used then you could have a stronger hull material to replace your current or have the ability to adjust the thickness of hull materials and that would allow for things like stronger but with more density is more weight and since we are talking about going from 2mm to 3mm or 4mm visually you wouldn't need to do anything but it could add gameplay simply by allowing variation and trade off for what you want. To add to that, the more mass and dense you make the hull the higher the signature for radar you could produce also possibly.

It shouldn't of been hard to assign all Origin ships hull material A and such forth is the point to give some variation. The point and shoot game mechanic is about as shallow as you can get and doesn't even get close to the Tier 0 mining even if that was only FPS.

Also making one thing beam from a ship to storage and not just in an FPS state is there because mining has already got all that tech working, it is 100% the same system as sucking up the rock pieces, literally a carbon copy. It needed no time relative for that part to be created unlike mining which it needed to be completed from scratch.
 
Was playing StarMarine the other day and it plays reasonable well for what it is. They've really half assed the matchmaking though. Trying to get in with a team simply didn't work if the team was too large for one side, no errors or hints. Loadout saving is iffy, tends to work if you make all the changes you want and hit save once. If you hit save any other changes won't be saved. I'd be a fan of fixed loadouts as well ie. You can select A, B or C loadouts.

It wouldn't take much for them to get it into a ok place. Fix matchmaking and partying and up the tick rate would be great.
 
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