Poll: Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Mk II

[Dolph]

indeed, this is pretty basic re: negotiations

people who don't get that perhaps are among the people who don't quite grasp that it isn't a good idea to say unilaterally guarantee rights for EU nationals in the UK without reciprocal rights in place for UK nationals in the EU

The basic problem seems to be that some people have literally no clue how to negotiate. You have to have red lines, you have to be willing to walk away and you cannot let the other party dictate the rules otherwise you will get screwed over.

It's almost like some people want the negotiations to go badly...

 

[stewski]

I think that's fair.

Corbyn is the best leader Labour has had since Blair. That's not saying much, I know. It's just a shame that his past keeps getting in the way of policy debate (tonight being just another example). I'd like to see the manifesto challenged more, as it's more than a little excessive in places.

Just to jump back on this which I agree with. Despite losing all respect for Clegg post election, he was clearly a better leader, talker and potential PM than any of his peers, I'm not blind to the possibility he was dealt a tough hand, but when you show such promise and deliver virtually nothing (cable would have made a chancellor Osborne could only dream of being), despite the risk of a complex coalition, if PR was an option (some say not but Brown had already promised AV without a referendum) that way, it should have been taken and I don't agree the route they took wasn't clouded with self interest on a number of issues.

 

[Judgeneo]

Dang look at the poll now. Corbyn will get a boost from tonight's performance.

 

[dowie]

I think people dont quite grasp that the EU know we need a deal and if we dont then the UK will be out in the ****. May knows we need a deal.... the EU know May needs a deal. All Mrs May is dishing out is empty rhetoric as usual.

Nope, not at all actually, there is a very real possibility talks could break down - it certainly isn't empty rhetoric and the EU side acknowledges this too:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...lapse-over-uk-divorce-bill-says-eu-negotiator

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, fears the refusal of member states to soften their demands over the size of Britain’s “divorce bill” could lead to a collapse in talks and the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal, minutes of a meeting of the European commission reveal.

Barnier has told the commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, and other senior officials that the stakes are so high because Berlin and Paris are refusing to pay more to cover the UK’s departure, while those governments who receive the most from EU funds are opposed to any cuts in spending.

Seemingly Corbyn on the other hand would be willing to bend over to all demands...

 

[Dolph]

That's not the question I asked.

I don't think May would walk away, regardless of what was on the table. I think her words about doing so are empty nonsense.

Do you believe she would actually leave the negotiations?

Yes. I also believe that there are scenarios that could cause the eu to leave the table.

Do I think we will reach an agreement? Yes, I hope pragmatism on both sides will lead to a path being found. I know how I would approach it if I was doing it. I would go in with a financial offer, subject to binding trade rules, and reciprocal citizenship rights for the nationals on both sides. But if the eu insisted on us agreeing to a huge bill with no obligations on them, we would have to walk. If positions harden on both sides, it's more likely that we and up with no deal, but I think it can be achieved.

 

[Uther]

Dang look at the poll now. Corbyn will get a boost from tonight's performance.

Yes but don't forget you've got people like scorza trolling.He's a con/ukip supporter but has his name down for Labour...

 

[Caged]

Don't take anything from an OcUK poll jfc

 

[Kenai]

Yes. I also believe that there are scenarios that could cause the eu to leave the table.

Do I think we will reach an agreement? Yes, I hope pragmatism on both sides will lead to a path being found. I know how I would approach it if I was doing it. I would go in with a financial offer, subject to binding trade rules, and reciprocal citizenship rights for the nationals on both sides. But if the eu insisted on us agreeing to a huge bill with no obligations on them, we would have to walk. If positions harden on both sides, it's more likely that we and up with no deal, but I think it can be achieved.

Completely agree there could be positions where both parties should be prepared to walk away, I just don't have the confidence that any of our potential leaders would actually do it. Corbyn pretty much admits as much, May doesn't but I've seen nothing to suggest she actually has enough of a backbone to follow up.

 

[antijoke]

I hope conservatives do win as I think the coming storm will destroy May and the Tories in the next election, seeing them and her get it full on will be glorious.

 

[Silly Goose On The Loose]

Prediction: no overall majority.

 

[Nate--IRL--]

Can somebody take a screenie of the poll? I don't want to vote in it (as I'm not in the UK) but I'd like to see where its at.

Nate

 

[Caged]

I hope conservatives do win as I think the coming storm will destroy May and the Tories in the next election, seeing them and her get it full on will be glorious.

The 2022 campaign will still be talking about "the mess we inherited from Labour"

 

[stewski]

The basic problem seems to be that some people have literally no clue how to negotiate. You have to have red lines, you have to be willing to walk away and you cannot let the other party dictate the rules otherwise you will get screwed over.

It's almost like some people want the negotiations to go badly...

The type of people who accuse the negotiators of interference in the general election they just called, or the type of people who invite Trump to a state visit moments after inauguration in conflict with every other lotus invite in the history of ever?

 

[Aedus]

Can somebody take a screenie of the poll? I don't want to vote in it (as I'm not in the UK) but I'd like to see where its at.

Nate

Just vote for "I wont be voting", else you'll need a new screenshot every time.

• Conservatives 65 vote(s) 30.1%
• Labour 100 vote(s) 46.3%
• Liberal Democrats 26 vote(s) 12.0%
• Scottish National Party 8 vote(s) 3.7%
• Plaid Cymru 0 vote(s) 0.0%
• UKIP 3 vote(s) 1.4%
• Green Party 4 vote(s) 1.9%
• Other (Please state) 5 vote(s) 2.3%
• I won't be voting 5 vote(s) 2.3%

 

[D.P.]

Prediction: no overall majority.

That would be fantastic, best possible scenario!

 

[robfosters]

Labour doing well in the poll. Surprising.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

The basic problem seems to be that some people have literally no clue how to negotiate. You have to have red lines, you have to be willing to walk away and you cannot let the other party dictate the rules otherwise you will get screwed over.

It's almost like some people want the negotiations to go badly...

I'll remember this post next time were discussing a trade union dispute........

 

[Glaucus]

Labour doing well in the poll. Surprising.

this poll is meaningless with several troll votes.
however the other polls show them closing pretty much daily. Its certainly going to be more interesting than anyone thought.

 

[Dolph]

I'll remember this post next time were discussing a trade union dispute........

Don't confuse walking away with striking, walking away in that context is taking your skills to another employer, not throwing a strop while demanding legal protection for your tantrum

I've always advocated being willing to walk away during an employment dispute, if you can't it suggests your argument is weak.

 

[Uriel]

Crikey Paxman was annoying in those interviews.