Why don't we dock our warships in Hong Kong and see what happens?
Potentially kicking off in Russia
- Thread starter nutsnut
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Why don't we dock our warships in Hong Kong and see what happens?
So Russia formally annexed Crimea into the Russian Federation. According to Russia, Crimea is part of Russia. This is where de facto and de jure expressions come into play. De facto its Russian, de jure according to the international law (which is a huge topic of its own) most countries do not recognise that claim and still consider Crimea as part of Ukraine; most importantly the UK does not recognise Crimean annexation.
HMS Went inside the 12 nautical miles zone of Crimea's coast, so the ship did breach internationally recognise border. However, as previously mentioned the UK considers it as Ukraine's territory and presumably had Ukraine's blessing to sail there. UK MoD also made a point that the ship was using internationally recognised shipping lane and I am not informed well whether that provides more legal basis for this the destroyer to be able to sail there. Then there's freedom of navigation, which is another complicated topic (just throwing you topics of interest if you want to look it up yourself).
In simple terms, the UK breached Crimean border. Russia is angry because they consider it theirs and the UK is saying well mate it's Ukraine so we don't care what you do or say.
Whilst this political/PR move is fun and exciting, it is also very dangerous, because if the Russians one day will try to defend their claim it could escalate to WW3 (quite unlikely but still).
That's the thing, I mean Russia enters UK (and/or French) waters when they use the English channel, for example taking their out-of-date aircraft carrier to Syria etc... there are no international waters to go through initially when coming from the baltic sea but they're allowed to cross through. Similar argument here really if they're citing it as an internationally recognised trade route.
Well now that we have videos of both BBC and Russian side it was clear situation was somewhat tense. Planes, Russian threats of literally sinking Defender, Russians firing into the air etc. The defender crew all wearing fire protection clothing etc. I am still clueless on Gov response that nothing happened at all.
Dominic Raab said nothing happened either and yet BBC and both Russians confirm it did.
Reality is that ignoring de-facto borders will one day set off a sad turn of events. I'm sure Chinese are going to be emboldened by this move and start probing Taiwan - after all, they do not recognize it either.
People who say 'hUrr dURR how dare you, rule britania and support our troops!'. I support our troops and navy and therefore see no reason in putting them in direct danger over a PR stunt.
What if Russian coastguard was drunk or something and did fire directly on HMS Defender?? To his eye by his countries law - he had full right to do so. Once gloves are off, no one would deal with anything, HMS Defender would return fire, sink couple Russian coastguards and take couple planes. Then what? An overwhelming barrage from Crimea bases? How many dead on our side and a step from WW3 if not itself
Dominic Raab said nothing happened either and yet BBC and both Russians confirm it did.
Reality is that ignoring de-facto borders will one day set off a sad turn of events. I'm sure Chinese are going to be emboldened by this move and start probing Taiwan - after all, they do not recognize it either.
People who say 'hUrr dURR how dare you, rule britania and support our troops!'. I support our troops and navy and therefore see no reason in putting them in direct danger over a PR stunt.
What if Russian coastguard was drunk or something and did fire directly on HMS Defender?? To his eye by his countries law - he had full right to do so. Once gloves are off, no one would deal with anything, HMS Defender would return fire, sink couple Russian coastguards and take couple planes. Then what? An overwhelming barrage from Crimea bases? How many dead on our side and a step from WW3 if not itself
Well they have to go through the channel whereas in this instance HMS Defender could have easily stayed out of the 12 nautical mile zone from the Crimean coast. It was a deliberate PR move by the UK following a deal with Ukraine.
The most exciting new is that Russia is saying they will bomb any other incursion into Crimean waters and the UK replied that they will do this again. So this is very fun, lets see who will blink first ( I reckon Russia's threat is empty)
Well Gov elections in Russia are soon. So yeah, they might not blink this once and this is how we end up in a bad situation.
If Russians sink HMS Defender off-coast of Crimea, Putins party will be at 95% approval rating overnight. Now think twice whether they will blink or not with psychopath dictator at its helm
Because this is not WW2. Its not like we going to have days worth of epic battles on the ocean or seas with countless battleships. It would take half an hour or even less for dozens of Russian aircraft shot down, with couple coastguard ships going down too. Unfortunately with such proximity to Crimea, the barrage of anti-ship missiles would end Defender rather quickly too.
I'm sure they got some nuclear tipped torpedo's ready on subs as well at this point.
Yeah, it was, though, the principle is still there - if they're following a trade route etc... then why should they have to take a longer way around.
It's more the risk tbh.. it might be more likely that it wouldn't escalate beyond a skirmish but the consequences of it doing so are so big that the risk is something to take seriously.
you've still got your iodine tablets they gave out at the brexit ballot though.
Soldato
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As the song says "Bomb the Russians........like a boss"
Job done
Job done
I think the China situation is a lot more delicate and I suspect will turn in to a massive war at some point as they are pro-actively trying to cause trouble.
I can see the China situation warming up I can't really see it turning into a massive war. I do worry we will embolden them by acting tamely over issues like Taiwan though leading to potentially deferring having to act in a smaller capacity in the short term into a much bigger problem in the longer term.
There's no way China will go to war, they are way to comfortable economically and growing all the time. They have all these 5 year plans they are working on. Also there are still a lot of poor people in China and their government does little to help them, they wouldn't risk an uprising , turning the people against them.
Soldato
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Didn’t turkey recently blow up a Russian fighter jet, I don’t anything came of it..
That sounds familiar...
Slightly different? Pretty sure the handover of hong kong was an internationally recognised handover, Crimea was taken via invasion.
Yup stayed into its airspace and despite warnings would not leave so got shot down, was a lot of hot air.
The people in charge don’t give a stuff about the economy or the general populace. They’ll quite happily start a war and/or take over Taiwan just to start a dick swinging competition.