PS3 Impressions and Opinions Thread Now includes pricing information

fdxd · 10 May 2006 at 18:46

t@xman said:
On the contrary, I'd suggest the price difference is likely to be more than £100, but that aside.

Not for the value/core PS3 VS the premium Xbox 360. Which was my whole point. Also if you want to get your Premium xbox to a similar level to PS3 value pack it would cost more.

XB live is also free for exactly the same functionality - it has yet to be determined whether gaming on PS3 will also be free as this has yet to be referenced.

Xbox LIVE Gold like functionality is FREE. Gaming online is free. Confirmed many times now.

It is entirely possible (and probable) that SONY will leave the developers to run the gaming side and charge a subscription per game. This is something that could cost a hell of a lot more than XBlive.

Its no different than Xbox LIVE(assuming xbox live gold is free). For games like FFXI you will have to pay.

Blu Ray is pointless without HDMI. No one will buy this as a BR player, and anyone that thinks they will is deluded as movie playback will be restricted to 480p (the same as DVD).

No its not. MS didnt release the HDDVD addon to be a paperweight. The vast majority of movies will run fine up to 1080i. There are hardly even any 1080i screens in the UK and last i checked no 1080p screens. So clearly the HDDVD addon by MS and the Blu Ray PS3 value will no doubt appeal to people who brought 720p or 1080i screens.

Lots of frustrating misinformation about this last bit. Also HDDVD and Blu Ray players cost a fortune so the consoles are an excellent alternative. PS3 Blu Ray will use Hardware decoding courtesy of Nvidia making it maybe the best quality Blu Ray player for a while.

Phalanx · 10 May 2006 at 18:49

it seems to be a really stupid design. Why would they make it have a curved top when nearly everyone sits something on their PS2?

fdxd · 10 May 2006 at 18:51

Dont know. Console designs are great in general.

I honestly dont see how Resistance looks great. Its barely better looking than Half Life 2.

Superdude · 10 May 2006 at 18:53

fdxd said:
Its no different than Xbox LIVE(assuming xbox live gold is free). For games like FFXI you will have to pay.

No, you have obviously misunderstood the sentence. Games like FFXI will always have a payment fee as they are contantly being updated and maintained by specific teams of coders, you should always assume MMORPG's will have a fee.

What is meant by that line is that sony are leaving it up to the developers to maintain servers and internet play. This means that companies like ubisoft might charge extra for you to play thier games online because of the added cost of having to run thier own servers, unlike LIVE which is run by MS.

I can see in my mind EA already working out how to charge extra for differently modes of play on thier games.

FrankJH · 10 May 2006 at 18:54

t@xman said:
On the contrary, I'd suggest the price difference is likely to be more than £100, but that aside.
XB live is also free for exactly the same functionality - it has yet to be determined whether gaming on PS3 will also be free as this has yet to be referenced. It is entirely possible (and probable) that SONY will leave the developers to run the gaming side and charge a subscription per game. This is something that could cost a hell of a lot more than XBlive.
Blu Ray is pointless without HDMI. No one will buy this as a BR player, and anyone that thinks they will is deluded as movie playback will be restricted to 480p (the same as DVD).

I think its alreadybeen confirmed at £100 difference for basic models

You are of course forgetting a hugggeee number of people will be upgrading to hdtv over the summer for world cup, so these will undoubtedly have hdmi of some kind ( two different varieties I understand) if they dont have already

Even so I dont personally think BR is pointless without hdmi, simply because most people HAVE to upgrade their system one thing at a time rather than en masse, and so the ps3 is a good replacement or xmas pressie or whatever for the ps2 or whatever else.

I would also say that if Sony can develop some worth while addins at launch for dual operability of psp and ps3 i think that will be a big plus for them imo, anyone who thinks psp was a failure is astoundingly deluded lol

t@xman · 10 May 2006 at 18:57

fdxd said:
Xbox LIVE Gold like functionality is FREE. Gaming online is free. Confirmed many times now.

Maybe you'd like to point me to where it is stated that online gaming will be free as I seem to have missed it?

fdxd said:
Its no different than Xbox LIVE(assuming xbox live gold is free). For games like FFXI you will have to pay.

The only XBlive game that demands a subscription is FFXI - no other game does! If the developers are left to control online play then every single PS3 game may require a subscription.

fdxd said:
No its not. MS didnt release the HDDVD addon to be a paperweight. The vast majority of movies will run fine up to 1080i. There are hardly even any 1080i screens in the UK and last i checked no 1080p screens. So clearly the HDDVD addon by MS and the Blu Ray PS3 value will no doubt appeal to people who brought 720p or 1080i screens.

As I understand it, the HD Tagging will not allow a signal above 480p for movie playback without High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) - It is part of the Blu Ray & HD-DVD protocol. Any movie signal not transmitted via a medium with HDCP will be automatically downscaled to 480p - there's no way to get around that, and if Sony tried then you can bet your life that every single movie company will withdraw from the format.
As far as I'm aware the only way to get HDCP is via DVI(DHCP) or HDMI - correct me if I'm wrong?
With regard to MS, I am assuming that HDMI will be on the HD-DVD addon, otherwise this too would be useless, although to my knowledge MS haven't released anything regarding this?

Superdude · 10 May 2006 at 18:58

FrankJH said:
Anyone who thinks psp was a failure is astoundingly deluded lol

I've never really heard anyone call the psp a "failure" before. It's a very well selling peice of kit.

My main grip with my PSP atm is the fact there are so little outstanding games for it. I have over 20 games for my PSP and still I return to playing lumines over and over again. It's a lot like the PS2. It has a lot of support but not much to show from it.

Might sell my PSP and get a DS lite for travel and a gameboy micro for general use.

Superdude · 10 May 2006 at 19:01

t@xman said:
The only XBlive game that demands a subscription is FFXI - no other game does! If the developers are left to control online play then every single PS3 game will require a subscription.

Woha, don't get ahead of yourself there, I'm backing you up but choose your works carefully. Current ps2 online games are run by developers and don't require a fee however I'm sure SOME but not all ps3 online games will require a fee.

t@xman · 10 May 2006 at 19:03

Superdude said:
Woha, don't get ahead of yourself there, I'm backing you up but choose your works carefully. Current ps2 online games are run by developers and don't require a fee however I'm sure SOME but not all ps3 online games will require a fee.

Sorry, no you're correct, I meant to say "may" (and have edited as appropriate) - I was trying to emphasise my point ie the difference in internet structure. :cool:

Superdude · 10 May 2006 at 19:07

t@xman said:
Sorry, no you're correct, I meant to say "may" (and have edited as appropriate) - I was trying to emphasise my point ie the difference in internet structure.

No worries mate, you must be carefull when fighting the fanboys, they will rip your arguement to shreds if there is even one mistake.

fdxd · 10 May 2006 at 19:11

t@xman said:
Maybe you'd like to point me to where it is stated that online gaming will be free as I seem to have missed it?

Sony Conference is the first place.

The only XBlive game that demands a subscription is FFXI - no other game does!

exactly!

If the developers are left to control online play then every single PS3 game may require a subscription.

No. If PS3 had the same games as Xbox 360. Then it would just be FFXI too. No reason for them to start charging fees for normal games.

As I understand it, the HD Tagging will not allow a signal above 480p for movie playback without High Definition Copy Protection (HDCP) - It is part of the Blu Ray & HD-DVD protocol. Any movie signal not transmitted via a medium with HDCP will be automatically downscaled to 480p - there's no way to get around that, and if Sony tried then you can bet your life that every single movie company will withdraw from the format.

Only IF the movie company supports copy protection in their product. Which isnt the case outside of afew movies so far.

As far as I'm aware the only way to get HDCP is via DVI(DHCP) or HDMI - correct me if I'm wrong?
With regard to MS, I am assuming that HDMI will be on the HD-DVD addon, otherwise this too would be useless, although to my knowledge MS haven't released anything regarding this?

I agree with you. Quite true.

Phil99 · 10 May 2006 at 19:17

As I understand it, the HD Tagging will not allow a signal above 480p for movie playback without High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) - It is part of the Blu Ray & HD-DVD protocol. Any movie signal not transmitted via a medium with HDCP will be automatically downscaled to 480p - there's no way to get around that, and if Sony tried then you can bet your life that every single movie company will withdraw from the format.
As far as I'm aware the only way to get HDCP is via DVI(DHCP) or HDMI - correct me if I'm wrong?
With regard to MS, I am assuming that HDMI will be on the HD-DVD addon, otherwise this too would be useless, although to my knowledge MS haven't released anything regarding this?

I thought it was a case of this HDCP protection is optional to be included on the disks, so movie studios have the option of enabling this block/downscale if no HDCP output is found/used, but it's unlikely they'll use this feature for a while yet.

However it works it's certainly causing a lot of confusion!

The only XBlive game that demands a subscription is FFXI - no other game does! If the developers are left to control online play then every single PS3 game may require a subscription.

But there's still nothing stopping other developers charging their own subscription on XBOX Live! (that I'm aware of)

If Ubisoft decided to charge a subscription to play, for example, GR:AW online then I don't think having an extra subscription to XBOX Live would stop that happening, just like it hasn't stopped FFXI. It's unlikely, but not impossible.

Do the developers/publishers actually get money from the XBOX Live subscriptions, I'm not entirely sure how the actual setup works? Do MS host the chat rooms and dictate the way online games are organised?

JUMPURS · 10 May 2006 at 19:17

Just for the record btw, MS have not confirmed HDMI or HDCP for the HD-DVD add on which is very peculiar at the time.

t@xman · 10 May 2006 at 19:24

Phil99 said:
IBut there's still nothing stopping other developers charging their own subscription on XBOX Live! (that I'm aware of)

If Ubisoft decided to charge a subscription to play, for example, GR:AW online then I don't think having an extra subscription to XBOX Live would stop that happening, just like it hasn't stopped FFXI. It's unlikely, but not impossible

Do the developers/publishers actually get money from the XBOX Live subscriptions, I'm not entirely sure how the actual setup works? Do MS host the chat rooms and dictate the way online games are organised?

I think FFXI is the exception as bait just to get the FF series onboard. This is very frowned upon by MS, and was meant to be the reason that EA delayed XBlive support for so long (they wanted to run and charge for their own servers).
I don't believe any money changes hands with regard to online play and provision of servers. As far as I'm aware it is far cheaper for a developer to leave that to MS than for them to pay for a server farm for worldwide provision, so most are happy to leave that well alone.

t@xman · 10 May 2006 at 19:26

JUMPURS said:
Just for the record btw, MS have not confirmed HDMI or HDCP for the HD-DVD add on which is very peculiar at the time.

Yes, I also find this strange, but am assuming that it's because they intend to have it on the unit itself - does make you wonder how much this would save on production costs as it's only connected to the 360 via USB2.

JUMPURS · 10 May 2006 at 19:30

Yeap exactly.
What i do wonder from the pics though, is that an expansion bay???
Also there are 3 usb sockets, the device connects to the 360 with the small one, so that leaves 2 more, i mean how big is this machine going to get if its making way for another 2 usb devices lol

Ohhhhhhhhhhh hang on, is that where we are ment to attach the wireless network adapter, that will answer how the get around the problem of only one usb slot on the back of the box.

Still think they should have put 2 back there

Edit also apparently they have only confirmed up to 720p playback?? ehhh?? whats the point in that!

Eliot · 10 May 2006 at 19:54

well, do u knwo anyone with a 1080i tv, i know i dont

Wyrdo · 10 May 2006 at 19:58

Eliot said:
well, do u knwo anyone with a 1080i tv, i know i dont

Edit: Going mad

720p is 'better' than 1080i anyway.

JUMPURS · 10 May 2006 at 20:01

Eliot said:
well, do u knwo anyone with a 1080i tv, i know i dont

Not yet, but the life of these consoles is ment to be 5 years, so in 3-4 years time i might

BoomAM · 10 May 2006 at 20:04

Just thought i'd chip in on some of the technical details here.

fdxd said:
First of all the price difference is much less than £100 for the cheaper PS3.

Not yet confirmed. They havnt said the price over here yet, and even if they did, its subject to change.
So you cant comment on that really. But you've sorta addressed that already with:

Value from a purely out of the box point of view:

So i'll let you off.

PS3 value pack includes everything the Xbox 360 does. Blu Ray and free online gameplay access are included. Not to mention superior graphics and features.

In a way yes, but the fact that it'll be marketed as a HD output device when it cant do anything HD apart from the games (asuming it supports component) is a little farsical.
Superior Graphics? Nope. Again, the specs are not 100% confirmed, so on that point alone we cannot make a conclusion on the graphical capabilities of the console. Regardless though, looking at the specs as we know them to be now, the PS3 isnt in anyway superior specification wise to the 360. They are very near each other in power, but i'd say that the 360 edges it, simply because the Cell chip in the PS3, despite its fanfare and hype, is an awful chip to use from a developers point of view, not to mention its flaws as a processor in general.
The 360's Xenos, essentially a next generation unified shader ATI part, compared to the PS3s RSX processor, which is essentially a 7800GTX, would be the superior chip graphically, in theory.

The special feature of the controller is something that could be a selling point. Blu Ray will be used for games too. The HDD setup means all games can use HDD for loading.

The controller on the PS3's 'special feature' is nothing more than a cut down version of the WII's controller abilites. It can hardly be a selling point when a another, different console, does that ability far better. The PS3 controller is simply L/R tilt sensing. The WII's is full motion sensing, in a complete 360* 3D dimention.

PS3 Impressions and Opinions Thread **Now includes pricing information**

PS3 Impressions and Opinions Thread Now includes pricing information