QLED vs OLED

Psycho Sonny said:
depends on cost. projector can do massive screens for buttons.
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It'll be a while, but prices will drop and it will get around the biggest issues with current projectors - brightness and needing a batcave for the best picture quality.


hornetstinger said:
Dunno idea of a hidden drop down screen is more appealing than a 100" TV that blocks the whole front of the room

Plus TVs are so thin if you fall on them it'll sloce you clean in two
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Ii will have to be wall mounted and could have pretty much any image you want on it! Would be baddass. I'll brave the risks of it falling off the wall and lopping off a limb ;)
 
rtings next test

39727109283_b32781f715_z_d.jpg
 
jpaul said:
the dells was several K, right, hence my double-take ... and withdrawn as a product no ?

you're obviously fortunate if you get to experience both a latest generation oled+lcd in you home to make a real comparison, blacks etc

The oled's have only been in the field , what 3 years ?, so ageing , and reliabaility of the electronics is not really being experienced in the public domain.
The rtings tests, agree, are not comprehensive, some of the ageing characteristics eg genuine age degradation of the organic materials cannot be captured, not hdr tests either.
In semiconductor testing you usually run stuff at over voltage, or in harsh (temp/humidity) environments, which rtings are not doing, only lg .. impacts are usually logarithmic too.

Now there is price 'parity' with led the choice is more difficult, if (like me) you were previously rejecting the oled premium considering ageing risk, that's mitigated.

TV's seem to have become relatively more expensive too, I'm not sure how the marketting departments accomplished that, since price folks are prepared to pay seems to buck the 'experiences over physical possessions' zeitgeist
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Yeah something like that, I got no problems spending that sort of money but it made no sense when you can get a 55+" OLED HDR 4k for FAR cheaper.

Again though, look at rtings comparison for burn in, you can clearly see how much IPS has aged and it's been around for how long???? Just because a tech. has been around for longer doesn't necessarily mean it is has more longevity. To get 5 years out of any new modern display these days is good going in my eyes, anything after is a bonus.

hornetstinger said:
Six hours on one channel or logo is not abusive, a TV set should take that without damage.
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And it appears people STILL can't read :D

That sort of content EVERY day WITH a extremely high OLED light level setting.......... 80+% is not normal, it is far exceeding the recommended luminance of 120 nits for SDR content (which translates to 20-35% depending on the model/TV). If people are intent on watching news every day for 6+ hours and need the brightness that high, then yes, OLED is not the correct option and needless to say, having an OLEd doing that for the majority of its life is a waste of money anyway, just buy a cheap 40" TV or something for purely news purposes......

Raggs said:
there is some dude on the av forums covering up his oled during sunlight hours with a blanket :p due too burn in worries think I'll pass on one till LG guarantee against it.
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Seen that too, could explain why some experience burn in more than others and possibly be down to the extra heat from the sun through the window.

Got a massive window and the light hits my TV all day but I don't watch TV during the day that much (and don't cover it up) + I have black out blinds so.....
 
Psycho Sonny said:
the 3 tv's to buy this gen are

NU8000 - if on a very tight budget
XF90 - for gaming and pc usage
LG Oled - for varied usage

no other mid to high end tv makes sense in the value for money category
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100% agree.


Now yesterday I went to buy a new tv I had my heart set on the 82" NU8000.

BUT..

I went with a usb stick with video and test patterns that I know what they look like and sadly the image quality was terrible for movies and regular TV, when putting on gaming it was fine. I had the remote so could change any setting and adjust everything no matter what I did it was either very over saturated or when colours were about right it looked washed out. So gave up on that TV then my eyes went over to OLED (but I wasn't going to buy one, coming from Plasma Pioneer, Panasonics, I got tired babysitting the tellys to make sure no bad retention or burn in), tuned my eyes to that C8 and started to to see some typical black crush (shadow detail missing because too dark) even after adjusting the screen with the remote, when right the blacks were well Plasma black.. and the whites again like plasma when set right can have a slight sepia look.

Anyways I promised myself not to buy an OLED as I didnt want that headache of babysitting the TV and wanted to just enjoy it.

So went round checked out all the QLEDS from the top down and the 9FN was nice but too expensive for what it is, also found some of the colours were still over saturated when set about right.. But was nice, right up there.. but the price is silly.


Anyways moved on LG IPS screens were never going to be in the list, sorry not wanting greys for blacks and even in store the IPS showed this under the bright conditions they were in and asked the staff to turn the lights off there and they did and then we saw the real story, black = grey.

Now I moved over from the Panasonic, lovely TVs again but silly money for the one my eyes liked and outdated smart features like on my old plasma, funny exactly almost the same.



Now over to Sony, OLED stunning and all the motion stuff and my test usb showed massive difference from the LG OLEDs and looked nicer to me, but no OLED remember so went to look at their LCD their master series Z something top one cant remember now the full model number LCD was right next to the XF9005 and they gave me both remotes again and played with all my test usb stuff and WOW the Z was stunning and the XF9005 was right there next to it, so I asked can you turn the lights off in that area and they did and then and only then did I see why the Z was so much more more expensive and you know what I adjusted the XF9005 a little more and it was 90%-95% there with the Z to my eyes..

So you guessed came out with a 75" XF9005 :) getting it Monday and will update when I get it tested at my home.

Ohh I love movies and want to game on and off, the reason I wanted originally the NU8000 82" was the large screen at a good price, you know cinema wow factor, so was willing to have edge lit, but the colours I coudn't live with for movies, games it would be fine but movies no.

Also heads up Richer sounds has the 75" XF9005 for £2300 now, less than what it was Black Friday.
 
The only thing putting me off a Sony is the fact that they use Android for the OS. I find it absolutely atrocious compared to the LG and Samsung efforts, being laggy and generally slow.

FWIW I’m keeping an eye on the prices of the Samsung 65Q7’s as they tick all my boxes apart from the price!
 
Purgatory said:
100% agree.


Now yesterday I went to buy a new tv I had my heart set on the 82" NU8000.

BUT..

I went with a usb stick with video and test patterns that I know what they look like and sadly the image quality was terrible for movies and regular TV, when putting on gaming it was fine. I had the remote so could change any setting and adjust everything no matter what I did it was either very over saturated or when colours were about right it looked washed out. So gave up on that TV then my eyes went over to OLED (but I wasn't going to buy one, coming from Plasma Pioneer, Panasonics, I got tired babysitting the tellys to make sure no bad retention or burn in), tuned my eyes to that C8 and started to to see some typical black crush (shadow detail missing because too dark) even after adjusting the screen with the remote, when right the blacks were well Plasma black.. and the whites again like plasma when set right can have a slight sepia look.

Anyways I promised myself not to buy an OLED as I didnt want that headache of babysitting the TV and wanted to just enjoy it.

So went round checked out all the QLEDS from the top down and the 9FN was nice but too expensive for what it is, also found some of the colours were still over saturated when set about right.. But was nice, right up there.. but the price is silly.


Anyways moved on LG IPS screens were never going to be in the list, sorry not wanting greys for blacks and even in store the IPS showed this under the bright conditions they were in and asked the staff to turn the lights off there and they did and then we saw the real story, black = grey.

Now I moved over from the Panasonic, lovely TVs again but silly money for the one my eyes liked and outdated smart features like on my old plasma, funny exactly almost the same.



Now over to Sony, OLED stunning and all the motion stuff and my test usb showed massive difference from the LG OLEDs and looked nicer to me, but no OLED remember so went to look at their LCD their master series Z something top one cant remember now the full model number LCD was right next to the XF9005 and they gave me both remotes again and played with all my test usb stuff and WOW the Z was stunning and the XF9005 was right there next to it, so I asked can you turn the lights off in that area and they did and then and only then did I see why the Z was so much more more expensive and you know what I adjusted the XF9005 a little more and it was 90%-95% there with the Z to my eyes..

So you guessed came out with a 75" XF9005 :) getting it Monday and will update when I get it tested at my home.

Ohh I love movies and want to game on and off, the reason I wanted originally the NU8000 82" was the large screen at a good price, you know cinema wow factor, so was willing to have edge lit, but the colours I coudn't live with for movies, games it would be fine but movies no.

Also heads up Richer sounds has the 75" XF9005 for £2300 now, less than what it was Black Friday.
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82" and edge lit would have beeen horrible. anything bigger than 50" you need FALD IMO if you can afford it. my mate has a 75" sony last years model with 500 zones. it only came in 75" nothing else. trust me wow factor is unreal. i know 82" would have been better but not for the compromise of edge lit. he paid around £3K to £3.5K for his last year. so £2300 is still a good price for a 75" FALD sony.
 
Purgatory said:
snip
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Wait a second..... so you went in and started adjusting settings by just eye balling it? This is in bright shop conditions? So much wrong with that right there.

Also, whilst you may be adjusting settings, the TV(s) could still be in "store" preset mode....... i.e. my previous tvs have all had 2 options to choose from when booting up for the first time i.e. store or home mode, this affects several things from limiting what settings you can change to the IQ etc.

With regards to plasma vs oled, there is no contest in blacks, plasma is great and still probably second best but put them side by side and you will quickly see just how different they are, plasma blacks still aren't "black". With regards to black crush etc., you need proper calibration or at the very least, proper conditions to dial these in. Out of the box and even using the likes of technicolor preset still results in poor shadow details.

And for what it's worth, plasma is a hundred times worst for burn in/image retention, however, it is a lot better for uniformity especially in the near black scenes i.e. 5% grey slide.
 
Nexus18 said:
Wait a second..... so you went in and started adjusting settings by just eye balling it? This is in bright shop conditions? So much wrong with that right there.
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You didn't read everything I said mate, the TVs were all out of retail mode and I had the remotes and they turned off the lights when I asked. Also my eyes are more important than what a calibration system says. I calibrate my TVs once home in the store I can tell what the TVs are capable off ;).

If calibrated to specifications and the image is bad to my eyes, does that mean I need to calibrate my eyes too ? In the end is what the consumer enjoys, I like natural images not these over saturated and overly dark or bright images.

Been at this TV game for many decades mate had TVs that cost the same price as cars in the past.


Also I said OLED was out of the equation as I didn't want to babysit a TV to stop image retention or Burn In. I was out for the best LCD for the price and size the Sony XF900 was that.


OLED and Plasma will always rule... with the tech we have now.. but the next update for me is MicroLED a none organic emissive technology. OLED suffers from other issues not mentioned a lot compared to Plasma. Plasma does not get damaged by UV or breaking down over time naturally like OLED does it is organic and like all organic compounds they breakdown over time or in other words decompose.


MicroLED is my next upgrade ;) just waiting for the technology to mature.
 
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Purgatory said:
You didn't read everything I said mate, the TVs were all out of retail mode and I had the remotes and they turned off the lights when I asked. Also my eyes are more important than what a calibration system says. I calibrate my TVs once home in the store I can tell what the TVs are capable off ;).

If calibrated to specifications and the image is bad to my eyes, does that mean I need to calibrate my eyes too ? In the end is what the consumer enjoys, I like natural images not these over saturated and overly dark or bright images.

Been at this TV game for many decades mate had TVs that cost the same price as cars in the past.


Also I said OLED was out of the equation as I didn't want to babysit a TV to stop image retention or Burn In. I was out for the best LCD for the price and size the Sony XF900 was that.


OLED and Plasma will always rule... with the tech we have now.. but the next update for me is MicroLED a none organic emissive technology. OLED suffers from other issues not mentioned a lot compared to Plasma. Plasma does not get damaged by UV or breaking down over time naturally like OLED does it is organic and like all organic compounds they breakdown over time or in other words decompose.


MicroLED is my next upgrade ;) just waiting for the technology to mature.
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Sorry don't/didn't see the part about home mode and not retail mode.

Calibration system is far superior to our eyes..... There's a reason the likes of Vincent and other calibrators use equipment that costs thousands as well as the process taking several hours (depending on the experience of the person)

Fair enough if you don't like the appearance of a properly calibrated unit though, you're not the only one. Generally a calibrated unit isn't saturated and if anything, it's probably washed out looking to many people (if anything it is more what you are after i.e. a "natural" look).

With regards to blacks, shadow detail etc., that there is the problem, time and time again, I see people saying something along the lines of "can't see anything in dark scenes"..... but maybe that is the way the scene is intended to be shown by the director of the film???? In fact, one scene was used to talk about this and how certain TVs do it correctly and others don't:

https://www.avforums.com/review/panasonic-tx-65cz950-4k-uhd-oled-review.11860

The final side-by-side had us looking at an image area I feel too many people misunderstand and that is shadow detail and what you should be able to see in a given scene. Sowa highlighted this with Morgan Freeman’s introduction in Oblivion, where he lights a cigar and then his face disappears into the darkness. You should just make out the very left edge of his face and his eyes. Everything else should be in complete black.

The LG was showing too much of this scene where we could actually see the back wall behind Freeman. Just because that data might be in the image when mastered and brought out with incorrect gamma or panel brightness, it doesn’t mean you are supposed to see that detail. This is important in a scene like the one being highlighted as it can completely change the feeling and mood towards the character. He no longer looks menacing if you can see him clearly, like he was displayed on the LG. Again, we had no control over this aspect of the demo, but it did make sense and highlighted the expertise of the old plasma technicians managing to get the gradations between absolute black and just above correct. There were other examples shown where the CZ950 handled shadow detail without clipping and in a more dynamic way.

Scenes like the 'Freeman in darkness' sequence highlighted the amount of work Panasonic’s engineers have been putting into the harder aspects of image quality, like low APR scene detail and gradation performance.
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But yes, MicroLED is the next best thing in line, however, still a long way of for sensible pricing for most consumers.
 
Nexus18 said:
highlighted this with Morgan Freeman’s introduction in Oblivion
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ah - so that was the source of your M Freeman picture - I'd failed to find it - could be a good demo,

along with @Armageus problematic low bitrate/black-level trailer (what was the outcome ?)
jpaul said:
looked at the Marvel 4K trailer https://youtu.be/LEAKH-cGbs0?t=19 ?
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I would be interested to know if any tv makes a good meal of that.

and - an excerpt from superman which vincent video highlighted for distinguishing white rendering betweenn lg&pan oleds.

Oled's from vincents reviews seemed to have good out of the box calibration ... maybe in their manufacturing 'nature' I don't recollect Led type.
 
@Purgatory, now I’m thinking about the XF9005! Hell of a saving compared to the 9 series QLED which I’ve been looking at getting. I have some questions before I go to check one out.

Is the UI really as bad as people say? Are Sony still releasing updates for it?

Is it a regular HDMI? As well as cost, the QLEDs come with One Connect and I’d need the 15 metre cable which is £200 and very fragile.
 
Domo said:
@Purgatory, now I’m thinking about the XF9005! Hell of a saving compared to the 9 series QLED which I’ve been looking at getting. I have some questions before I go to check one out.

Is the UI really as bad as people say? Are Sony still releasing updates for it?

Is it a regular HDMI? As well as cost, the QLEDs come with One Connect and I’d need the 15 metre cable which is £200 and very fragile.
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Sony have said they're continuing to sell XF90s this year as well, alongside the XG95. So I imagine they'll keep getting updates, though often that breaks more things than it fixes unless it's critical flaws. Really, the bad thing about Sony UI isn't so much Android itself as it is the fact that they used very underpowered chips, which naturally struggle. It's not so bad by itself but if you directly connect the receiver to it it's so sloooooooooooow (e.g. have PC->AVR->TV; if I do PC->TV there's no issues with navigation speed but have to switch inputs if I want to tinker with AVR and see its UI on the TV). Mind you, I'm using it exclusively with a PC/PS4 Pro (and the rare Netflix/Youtube from TV apps), so I don't know about other gripes people have with its OS otherwise. This is just what sticks out to me. It is its biggest weakness, but a tiny evil compared to other TV's flaws, imho.

I'm not sure what you mean by regular HDMI, I assume you mean if it's HDMI -> HDMI rather than One-Connect Cable-> 1C Box, in which case yes.
 
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