Quit smoking. Vape good or bad.

[Rofflay]

Thats your experience, i do not share this experience so i'm afraid i cannot agree with your standpoint. Thats not the same as saying you're wrong, or that you're right, just that i disagree.

I tend to assume when vaping is concerned (especially given the context of this thread) that it concerns nicotine. Although you are correct there's many things that the term could also cover (perhaps a new term is needed to distinguish).



^a perfect example for my post, i think there's very much a cyclist/motorist thing going on with it tbh, yes you do get 'that guy' who'll fill any public building with clouds just because it's not illegal, but on the other hand there's far too many of the 'smokings bad for you' parade (as if us smokers weren't entirely aware) who'll tell you off just because they feel some sense of civic duty to do so.

No it is public health england who did the study and said it was 95% cleaner when using nicotine. The herbs i listed on the other hand are 100% harmless to humans and pets and simply lift out the active ingredients via temperature.


Theres nothing to worry about for anyone even with nicotine.... Look around your houses for your cleaning agents, toothpastes, gels, soaps, foods doing more harm that someone with a pen could ever get close too. Frankly i think the whole arguement and the people doing it are retarded.

 

[adolf hamster]

No it is public health england who did the study and said it was 95% cleaner when using nicotine. The herbs i listed on the other hand are 100% harmless to humans and pets and simply lift out the active ingredients via temperature.


Theres nothing to worry about for anyone even with nicotine.... Look around your houses for your cleaning agents, toothpastes, gels, soaps, foods doing more harm that someone with a pen could ever get close too. Frankly i think the whole arguement and the people doing it are retarded.

Considering medical science's history of not always being correct, or being completely disproven in time please forgive me for being skeptical about it's claims over an emerging trend (remember the ol' put radium in your water to kill the bacteria and make it safe?)

 

[bainbridge]

My contribution to this thread is that I think vapers look ridiculous.

 

[jpod]

Considering medical science's history of not always being correct.........

Yeah, after all what has science ever done for health, good luck with that.

Smoking is bad. Smoking and drinking alcohol together is really bad.

Hooka pipes are really bad too, shame, I liked them.

The peer reviewed scientific evidence (not articles posted on a websites) clearly states that the evidence base is currently too small to determine how bad vaping is and how bad passive vaping inhalation is.

However vaping is unlikely to be totally benign. Yes it can help people quit but it is not essential is it, heard of will power? That is how I stopped.

I expect a lot more people are starting to vape which may not be as bad as smoking but not totally risk free.

If you love your lungs I suggest you just drink in moderation.

I would never start vaping primarily because I love my lungs, they are useful for breathing and I think smoking and vaping makes you look like you are sucking on a titty.

 

[Pestilence]

Considering medical science's history of not always being correct, or being completely disproven in time please forgive me for being skeptical about it's claims over an emerging trend (remember the ol' put radium in your water to kill the bacteria and make it safe?)

I'd have to put a bit of a caveat on my understanding of where you're coming from.

I've been vaping for about 4 years now (I think it's 4). Got me off the cigarettes in one day, and never looked back. Took my nicotine concentration down from 36mg to 6mg, now (I still enjoy the morning buzz... caffeine doesn't do much for me so I'm not a big coffee drinker).

I've never felt better. Sickness record at work dropped like a stone, and I went from getting breathless from walking up a hill to regularly doing high intensity interval training.

I'm a big believer in trusting your body, and the physical reaction to vaping vs. smoking is quite clearly biologically night and day.

I'm also a tried and true sceptic, just like you. The first genuinely convincing sign that I see that vaping is legitimately bad for you -- and I don't just mean the blanket statement "contains toxins", because those are alarmist weasel words that ignore the fact that your body copes just fine with metabolising and eliminating said toxins with no adverse effects on function and health... like it's constantly doing on a daily basis-- all of my kit and juice is going in the bin.

BUT there's a line between healthy scepticism and... something else. I'd say that line's crossed when someone plops (solid and verifiable) evidence in front of you and says "Here! This is what we, the professionals in this field, have found."

... And you reply with "Yeah, but I don't trust you. You're probably wrong. Because people have been wrong about things before."

There's just nowhere for you to stand in that instance but in a contrarian position. Unless, of course, you're only satisfied by your negative expectations being met. When they aren't, you just go through life muttering "That'll rot your brain", "You know that's bad for you", "One day, son... one day they're gonna find..."

Get what I mean?

Then again, life's a crazy thing. Knowing my luck I'll wake up with a vagina on the back of my knee in 16 months or something.

 

[adolf hamster]

BUT there's a line between healthy scepticism and... something else. I'd say that line's crossed when someone plops (solid and verifiable) evidence in front of you and says "Here! This is what we, the professionals in this field, have found."

... And you reply with "Yeah, but I don't trust you. You're probably wrong. Because people have been wrong about things before."

I'm not as skeptical as you're making out lol, i just tend to not take things random strangers on the internet peddle as fact at face value regardless of how convincing they sound.

I get your viewpoint, your experience does seem common amongst the vaping fraternity and if i was all that skeptical i wouldn't have started taking it up. Currently my experience doesn't mirror yours, although you never know i might very well be saying what you are this time next year.

My current viewpoint on it is simply that there isn't enough long term data (see below) for me to make up my mind yet, so i'm currently following the attitude of "hell it cant be any worse, and at least it doesn't smell as bad at work".

The peer reviewed scientific evidence (not articles posted on a websites) clearly states that the evidence base is currently too small to determine how bad vaping is and how bad passive vaping inhalation is.

You seem to have a bit of a confused point, then proceed to agree with my original statement

I'm not saying science hasn't advanced medicine, that would be a lie, what i said originally was exactly what your saying now that there isn't enough data over a long enough period of time to conclusively say how good/bad it is. To quote myself "we'll see if in 50 years time we're all dropping (or not) of lung cancer".

My point was historically there have been cases where people (by which i mean established, trusted medical professionals) have said something is good/bad for you and have in time been proven wrong, often due to the advancement of science proving such (and improving medicine in the process). Considering how vaping is reasonably new on the scale it's growing, we don't yet fully understand it's long term effects because there's no 'test samples' (ie the general populace) from which to definitavely draw conclusions from.

If you want an example of the 'science' of medicine being somewhat illogical collect together all the things that have been 'linked with' cancers, and realise it somehow appears to cover almost everything planet earth has to offer.



Aaaanyway, i'm not 100% sure where all this is springing from considering i dont think my standpoint is exactly radical in any way, and i'd love to continue this debate but tbh we're just going to end up wiki linking and whatnot until someone cries troll and then the banhammer comes out.

So good night, and don't take anything too seriously

 

[Twirlywoos]

My contribution to this thread is that think vapers look ridiculous.

When they vape in front of children

 

[kaptainmarc]

I enjoy vaping. I know what goes into my device yes I don't know exactly what is the after product.
I feel much better in myself, I don't stink I am not harming anyone else so I don't see how anyone can have a problem with it.

 

[shorttricky]

If you want an example of the 'science' of medicine being somewhat illogical collect together all the things that have been 'linked with' cancers, and realise it somehow appears to cover almost everything planet earth has to offer.

Please don't mistake Daily Mail headlines for medical science

If you look at the studies they quote, they are largely laughable and tend to fall into the realm of dubious statistics, obtained by asking people about specific behaviours after the fact. There was one a few years back that showed mobile phones caused testicular cancer - the statistics were obtained by asking sufferers where they kept their mobile phones...since the answer was unsurprisingly, in their pocket next to the old chap, this was taken as proof.

Public Health England has determined they are 95% safer based on current studies - that's based on actual medical tests. Whatever the long-term effects might be, that is a clear medical benefit right there.

PHE have also found that they release a negligible amount of nicotine into the air, with no identified health risks to bystanders. They already know the chemicals that cause the smoke effect are fine because they've been testing them since the 40s.

PHE report

Sure, there might be long-term effects. But there are plenty of things that we don't know the long term effects of because they haven't been around long term...mobiles, wi-fi routers, electric cars, the Kardasians. That doesn't mean you can't embrace an immediate health benefit.

 

[Muz333]

It's probably better than smoking, but there needs to be significantly more research into the harmful effects of vaping/what happens to the substances they used when heated to a high temperature/appropriate regulations put in place/etc.

This is exactly right. There are so many different flavours with different chemicals combined with different set ups (air flow, resistance etc) that will reach different temperatures. Then different wicking materials as well.

In order for it to be deemed safe there would have to be some form of regulation on it for what chemicals can and can't be used and to what concentration.

Also I say this as someone who moved to vaping from smoking two years ago, however I'm also a research scientist and look at this unbiased.

Edit:
For what it's worth I believe they are a much better alternative to smoking. Even with myself I stopped waking up coughing with lungs that felt heavy after a night out smoking a lot. Where as I can vape to my hearts content and not feel any harm from it. Whether or not harm is actually taking place is a different story.

 

[Pestilence]

Sure, there might be long-term effects. But there are plenty of things that we don't know the long term effects of because they haven't been around long term...mobiles, wi-fi routers, electric cars, the Kardasians. That doesn't mean you can't embrace an immediate health benefit.

Immediate health benefit of the Kardashians? GET OUT!

 

[ttaskmaster]

vapers need to stop kidding themselves and believing these so called sources with no credibility at all.

OK, which non-so-called sources would you like to hear from?
Name the scientific, medical or regulatory body whose opinions you DO value and we'll go get them to test it as well...

Problem is, I find that it doesn't stop people still being ignorant asses and blowing the contents of their lungs over me still.

Do you also complain about people whose food you dislike the smell of? Whose perfume is not to your taste?

I tend to assume when vaping is concerned (especially given the context of this thread) that it concerns nicotine.

At this very moment, I'm vaping a 0% nicotine eLiquid... never assume!

Considering medical science's history of not always being correct, or being completely disproven in time please forgive me for being skeptical about it's claims over an emerging trend

Ah, so even though we can test it to the hilt, that is still not reliable enough for you?
Well then, apply that thinking to everything in your life and see where it gets you... all that shampoo, those food preservatives, sauces, handwashes, medicines, all those things you use on a daily basis... Have THEY been certified 100% safe with 200+ years of continual and intensive research?

My contribution to this thread is that think vapers look ridiculous.

Fair point. I'll stop that and take up smoking instead!
At least we KNOW smoking looks cool!!

Ridiculous, huh? I bet you're wearing a corduroy leisure suit with patches on the elbows, or something...

 

[HaloUK]

Lol Wellibob, you have started a good debate here!

 

[Things change I've changed]

The only thing I think is dodgy with vaping is the temptation for non-smokers to start, even I who hasn't smoke in ten odd years have been temped but I feel that would taking a big step back and could even lead to smoking real cigarettes again.

 

[jpod]

You seem to have a bit of a confused point, then proceed to agree with my original statement

I'm not saying science hasn't advanced medicine, that would be a lie, what i said originally was exactly what your saying now that there isn't enough data over a long enough period of time to conclusively say how good/bad it is. To quote myself "we'll see if in 50 years time we're all dropping (or not) of lung cancer".

My point was historically there have been cases where people (by which i mean established, trusted medical professionals) have said something is good/bad for you and have in time been proven wrong, often due to the advancement of science proving such (and improving medicine in the process). Considering how vaping is reasonably new on the scale it's growing, we don't yet fully understand it's long term effects because there's no 'test samples' (ie the general populace) from which to definitavely draw conclusions from.

If you want an example of the 'science' of medicine being somewhat illogical collect together all the things that have been 'linked with' cancers, and realise it somehow appears to cover almost everything planet earth has to offer.

In a nut shell there too little 'good evidence' to determine whether or not vaping is harmful.

But it is unlikely to be benign.

The science base, the amount of well designed studies will grow in time and we will know.

So people vaping without knowing the inherent risks are pioneers here. There is unlikely to be a health benefit.

You are completely right, science does come up with things which are later rejected, they then re-model that theory and test the living daylights out of it and repeat the process. We are describing the scientific method here.

 

[jpod]

The only thing I think is dodgy with vaping is the temptation for non-smokers to start, even I who hasn't smoke in ten odd years have been temped but I feel that would taking a big step back and could even lead to smoking real cigarettes again.

1+

In relation to tobacco smoking, new legislation today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34402622

 

[kevy1986]

I dunno about all this vaping going on these days.

I like to think of it like sex with a condom, tried it once, yeah it's all right but never really gonna be as good as the real thing. Plus everyone sucking on these large plastic sticks looks a bit ridiculous, same as wearing a thin piece of colored rubber.

Other than the above reasons which are more than enough I wouldn't vape as the industry is completely unregulated. God knows what people are actually inhaling. I'll laugh at the headlines in a year or so when it turns out everyone has super death cancer aids.

Anyways time for my lunch time smoke !

ProSmoker (15 years under my belt)

P.S : Regal for life !!!!

 

[Liquidfox]

The only thing I think is dodgy with vaping is the temptation for non-smokers to start

I already know of one friend that has done, they've never smoked but now they're vaping. Granted it's usually 0mg but there's still the odd juice that can't be found nicotine-free so they vape 3mg. Then there's quite a lot of my friends that are constantly bugging me for my smoky box whenever I'm around and they'll sit puffing away on it. Once I'm gone though they're not bothered by it.

Today is my one year anniversary, my last cigarette was smoked at 5pm on the 30th September 2014 and I've never looked back, I had a draw from a cigarette in town one night just to see what happened and I'm glad I did. They're foul!

 

[Greebo]

I went on Champix at a time when in realty I didn't really want to pack in smoking TBH it worked like a charm. I arrived at the Chemist & had to wait outside while I finished the last cigarette in a now empty packet.

iirc I was encouraged to continue smoking for a week or so more, I didn't, albeit I did after 18 weeks start smoking again <<<-----Nutter During the time I was taking champix I had no regrets or withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. This was after smoking 40 a day for about 45 years.

Why did you start again I hear some folks say.

My Daughter on a visit accidently dropped an half smoked packet, like a plonker I thought, well the odd one won't hurt.

To be fair though, IMO champix is very effective, albeit you've always got to be on the alert for the little demons at the back of your mind.

Champix doesnt work for everybody though. Well it does for stopping you smoke but if you suffer one of he many side affects then not worth it and you have to come off them.

I was having nightmares, hallucinations, lack of sleep, mood swings. Within a few weeks i was incapable of functioning as a human being and was at risk of losing my job.

 

[Gee]

I think the only thing I agree with is that there needs to be more testing of E-Liquids in general, especially along the lines of adding Diacetyl/Acetoin & Acetyl Propionyl which are known to cause lung damage.

I strictly make my own juice now for this reason, I don't trust manufacturers. Plenty of articles online of manufacturers (I'm looking at you Five Pawns) saying their juices contain zero of these added 'custard note' ingredients but as it turns out they're chock full of them.

Not to mention the price, 30ml of a quality juice can set you back anywhere between £15-20. I can make 280ml for that price, and I know exactly which concentrates I'm using! (Shouts to Flavour Art)