Racism, football and politics . . .

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BowdonUK said:
The guy should sue the media/police for releasing his name. Being arrested doesn't mean you've done it. It's not America. Apparently he's even been suspended from his work. It seems there is no innocent until proven guilty in this country any more.
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The police didn't release his name. The article makes it clear that it was the Mail that discovered it and published it. Police only release names after charge.

Your excuses for him are really poor though.
 
Looking at that one pic, it certainly appears to be a monkey gesture. You could probably defend him if it was just his arms in that position for a split second and nothing else happening, but his mouth clearly shows what sort of sound he's making...

It would be better if we had a video of it though.
 
G-MAN2004 said:
Looking at that one pic, it certainly appears to be a monkey gesture. You could probably defend him if it was just his arms in that position for a split second and nothing else happening, but his mouth clearly shows what sort of sound he's making...

It would be better if we had a video of it though.
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Let's be honest, this behaviour, whilst appaling, isn't unusual. It's not like anyone will be surprised if it's exactly as expected.
 
eddiemcgarrigle said:
Your whataboutary impresses nobody. It was a Rangers manager who said it was alright to hit wives if your team lost and the sectarianism in Northern Ireland has a distinctive orange tinge. Rangers fans have very few songs that don't revel in sectarianism and anti-Irish sentiment. If it's not being up to their knees in blood then it's the forced repatriation of Irish descendents.
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The Green Brigade and Celtic fans like to point their fingers at Rangers fans like their own **** doesn't stink, when they're one of the most sanctioned section of supporters in the Scottish league. Rangers fans might be singing UVF songs, while the Green Brigade sing pro IRA songs about the murder of British soldiers, quite a few of which happened to be Scottish, while waving banners depicting terrorists or banners of their manager made to look like the South Armagh "Sniper At Work" sign. ******* whatabouttery. Whatabouttery is the card people pull out of their arse when they don't like the fact that their own side is being criticised for being a shower of hypocritical ***** too.
 
There were videos on twitter, before being taken down, certainly looked like what is alleged. Though it was a little half hearted, almost like he thought "oh crap, what am I doing" halfway through.
 
chroniclard said:
You dont see anything wrong with someone making monkey gestures at a black player? Really?
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The video I've seen he's not doing a monkey gesture. He's tensed up as he's shouting.

The players were looking directly at him yet didn't see a monkey gesture.

I noticed in the picture in the mail there is a (non-white) steward standing right next to him, yet he didn't see any monkey gesture. I would imagine if someone is making that gesture they would also be shouting things of that nature too.

So far the only one calling it racist is some guy in the opposing teams dressing room.

If there is more footage that we haven't seen yet, or someone comes forward and says the guy was shouting racist abuse during the game then thats case proven. But so far I'd need more evidence. No doubt the police are investigating.
 
BowdonUK said:
The video I've seen he's not doing a monkey gesture. He's tensed up as he's shouting.

The players were looking directly at him yet didn't see a monkey gesture.

I noticed in the picture in the mail there is a (non-white) steward standing right next to him, yet he didn't see any monkey gesture. I would imagine if someone is making that gesture they would also be shouting things of that nature too.

So far the only one calling it racist is some guy in the opposing teams dressing room.

If there is more footage that we haven't seen yet, or someone comes forward and says the guy was shouting racist abuse during the game then thats case proven. But so far I'd need more evidence. No doubt the police are investigating.
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Its fairly clear in the video. May well have aborted as he realised it was a bad idea.
 
G-MAN2004 said:
It would be better if we had a video of it though.
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^^ Why does the crowd look so much bigger than the player, even though they are further away? Is the player a really small person in real life? my eyes playing tricks or what?
 
rxodium said:
The Green Brigade and Celtic fans like to point their fingers at Rangers fans like their own **** doesn't stink, when they're one of the most sanctioned section of supporters in the Scottish league. Rangers fans might be singing UVF songs, while the Green Brigade sing pro IRA songs about the murder of British soldiers, quite a few of which happened to be Scottish, while waving banners depicting terrorists or banners of their manager made to look like the South Armagh "Sniper At Work" sign. ******* whatabouttery. Whatabouttery is the card people pull out of their arse when they don't like the fact that their own side is being criticised for being a shower of hypocritical ***** too.
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Did I hit a nerve diddums. It was your whataboutery that I was talking about. You decided to rail against me regarding a small section of the Celtic support that the club has come down hard on or did you forget they had their section closed? Your support revels in sectarianism and it is clearly heard every time you have a game televised. Your last Euro game was especially bad and you where fortunate not to be fined for it.
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eddiemcgarrigle said:
Did I hit a nerve diddums. It was your whataboutery that I was talking about. You decided to rail against me regarding a small section of the Celtic support that the club has come down hard on or did you forget they had their section closed? Your support revels in sectarianism and it is clearly heard every time you have a game televised. Your last Euro game was especially bad and you where fortunate not to be fined for it.
t
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No you didn't. Get over yourself. What you did do was show how hypocritical you are and that you're incapable of seeing just how many scumbags both Rangers and Celtic have in their supporters. As for coming down hard on the Green Brigade, let's not mention the fact it's hardly worked has it? 18 times they've been hit with sanctions by UEFA because of crowd trouble and paramilitary displays since 2007. And they were sanctioned TWICE this year alone. I don't even support Rangers. Like I said, Scottish football is *****. But I'm not sitting on a pedestal with a holier than thou attitude blind to the behaviour of one group of fans while condemning the behaviour of another and then waving the whatabouttery card about when the team I happen to follow is criticised for being just as much, if not bigger scumbags than Rangers fans, like them wallowing in and celebrating the murder of soldiers, many of whom were their own kinsmen, by a bunch of Republican terrorists.
 
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NVP said:
Give me a reasonable explanation please.
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You do know that's not how (criminal) courts work don't you?

Hence why I used reasonable doubt (although juries struggled with this so they changed the wording to be 'so you are sure' but the evidential burden is the same)


Even in UK civil courts you have to prove you case on the balance of probabilities
 
NVP said:
What provides this reasonable doubt? The lack of audio?
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It about a seconds worth of movement of his arms, body and mouth.

Any jury or magistrate will have to be sure that the offence is commited. The defendant doesn't have to prove anything.

Yes the video could show what is claimed but absent of some other corroborating evidence (like audio) could they be sure that it isnt just a set of actions on behalf of the male on the video that didn't mean he was intending tobe mimicking a monkey?

Its hardly the most convincing attempt if that was his intention.
 
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