Ramadan 2020

Just to recap:

You believe in something that is man-made and nonsensical to all science and life as a whole. Brainwashing at its finest. I feel sorry for you. Imagine living in a bubble and not having the intelligence to understand that all what you believe in and do, is absolute nonsense.

Pity.

Anyway I'm out, busy day today, enjoy starving yourself.
 
So just to recap..
  • You like Weetabix
  • You made some very specific accusations about Islam and Ramadan
  • Your source for these accusations is living in London and something something Algeria
  • You struggle with time zones

Don't attack the person, dissect the subject. He has made a couple of valid statement within his incoherent ramblings.
 
Just to recap:

You believe in something that is man-made and nonsensical to all science and life as a whole. Brainwashing at its finest. I feel sorry for you. Imagine living in a bubble and not having the intelligence to understand that all what you believe in and do, is absolute nonsense.

Pity.

Anyway I'm out, busy day today, enjoy starving yourself.
So that's another no to your supposed source? You said you believe in science.....
Don't attack the person, dissect the subject. He has made a couple of valid statement within his incoherent ramblings.
LOL come on - that was such a strange thing to say (time zones).
 
Just to recap:

You believe in something that is man-made and nonsensical to all science and life as a whole. Brainwashing at its finest. I feel sorry for you. Imagine living in a bubble and not having the intelligence to understand that all what you believe in and do, is absolute nonsense.

Pity.
There are those followers without education who blindly practice their faith as it is their only education. However, there are many extremely well educated people out there who follow, not for the morality but for the community and culture. Instead of attempting your superiority, perhaps enlighten yourself on the world.

LOL come on - that was such a strange thing to say (time zones).
No comment :D
 
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Don't attack the person, dissect the subject. He has made a couple of valid statement within his incoherent ramblings.

This. It helps the mod team too, otherwise we end up just going down the route of nuking any and all criticism of anything religious due to how inflammatory it ends up being. Responding to a post you perceive as insulting with insults will just end with action being taken on your account, you're far better off taking a breath, and being calm and measured with your responses.
 
So that's another no to your supposed source? You said you believe in science.....

LOL come on - that was such a strange thing to say (time zones).

So that's another no to your supposed source? You said you believe in science.....

LOL come on - that was such a strange thing to say (time zones).

Why do you need a source to prove to you that starving yourself for a religion is stupid? how are you failing to see the common sense?

Yes science is proven.
Man made religion hasn't proven anything, apart from stupidity, wars and downfall.

Here is a source specifically for you, as you fail to comprehend things: https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/01/2...e-really-less-smart-on-average-than-atheists/

I really have to go now, got water to drink and work to do.
 
Why do you need a source to prove to you that starving yourself for a religion is stupid? how are you failing to see the common sense?

Yes science is proven.
Man made religion hasn't proven anything, apart from stupidity, wars and downfall.

Here is a source specifically for you, as you fail to comprehend things: https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/01/2...e-really-less-smart-on-average-than-atheists/

I really have to go now, got water to drink and work to do.
Nope, just this...
A study found that violent crime rates increase by over 20% in Algeria during Ramadan.

  • 220% increase in petty crime

  • 120% increase in domestic abuse

  • 320% increase in fights and assault

  • 40% increase in accidents

  • 80% increase in deaths
 
This. It helps the mod team too, otherwise we end up just going down the route of nuking any and all criticism of anything religious due to how inflammatory it ends up being. Responding to a post you perceive as insulting with insults will just end with action being taken on your account, you're far better off taking a breath, and being calm and measured with your responses.

Wouldn't religious debate be best kept out of threads celebrating religious occasions?
 
Absolutely.

I agree. "Debate" is all well and good but they can quickly become tiresome. There's a time and a place for everything and it would be a shame if this thread, or any thread celebrating a religious occasion, got bogged down with the usual arguments.
 
With the gyms closed I've taken up calisthenics for some surprising results. In normal circumstances I wouldn't have the energy or time for gym during Ramadhan. However, splitting calisthenics to a different body part a day means I have a 20 minute session prior to Iftari. Working well so far!
 
[..] You have lost me on the sunrise/sunset thing - so I shouldn't have set my alarm for 6.15am this morning because it's evening somewhere else? [..]

They do have a point regarding sunrise and sunset. Using that as a marker means that ramadan varies widely in different parts of the world, so different muslims are treated very differently by it. Is that what the founders of islam intended? How could you tell? Some parts of the world don't have a true sunrise or sunset for months, so using sunrise and sunset there is impossible. Ramadan moves year by year because it's based on an archaic calendar that has a significantly wrong number of days in a year, so that changes it too and most of the time it's not at the same time of the year as the event it's supposed to be commemorating. Is that what the founders of islam intended? How could you tell?
 
They do have a point regarding sunrise and sunset. Using that as a marker means that ramadan varies widely in different parts of the world, so different muslims are treated very differently by it. Is that what the founders of islam intended? How could you tell? Some parts of the world don't have a true sunrise or sunset for months, so using sunrise and sunset there is impossible. Ramadan moves year by year because it's based on an archaic calendar that has a significantly wrong number of days in a year, so that changes it too and most of the time it's not at the same time of the year as the event it's supposed to be commemorating. Is that what the founders of islam intended? How could you tell?

Hi Angilion. It's a fair question and one that is asked annually. Give or take the Islamic calendar is the same length yearly (much like our Gregorian calander with the occasion leap year).

Few years ago in the UK, Ramadhan was during winter. I remember it was barely a fast, rather a late lunch. This shift is obviously experienced throughout the world over the course of a decade. So we may have it a little more difficult this year, in a few years it'll be significantly easier. So the entire world experiences these peaks and troughs.

Of course it's not an exact science (if you wanted to tally up the hours). There are a number of other factors such as the weather, laws, political climate which all contribute to this "difficulty level". Just like there are rules in Islamic Jurispudence for the elderly, young and those with medical issues that are made exempt. There are similar rules for people who live in extreme time zones. This may include limiting the fast to certain number of hours a day or following the sunset/sunrise times of another country to name a few.

God is all knowing and understanding rather than something to be feared. It's about giving it your best shot and if it's too difficult and you've had to break your fast early you simply pay a specific sum to charity for that day (or feed a certain amount of grams of food to the poor) and make up the fast at your time of choosing (winter! ;)).

It's about following the spirit of Ramadhan. Most of which has been covered for you in the first 2 pages of this thread.

Hope this helps. Ramadhan Mubarak :)
 
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They do have a point regarding sunrise and sunset. Using that as a marker means that ramadan varies widely in different parts of the world, so different muslims are treated very differently by it. Is that what the founders of islam intended? How could you tell? Some parts of the world don't have a true sunrise or sunset for months, so using sunrise and sunset there is impossible. Ramadan moves year by year because it's based on an archaic calendar that has a significantly wrong number of days in a year, so that changes it too and most of the time it's not at the same time of the year as the event it's supposed to be commemorating. Is that what the founders of islam intended? How could you tell?

It's only a point if you think the total hours and minutes spent fasting is important. If that isn't an issue then the varying daylight hours isn't a big deal either. My understanding of Ramadan is that it isn't a divine command, rather it's a time of reflection on the overall beliefs and purpose of Islam along with the hardships that some are faced with.

Equally it means it doesn't really matter that it's a repurposed Pagan holiday, or more relevant in the Middle East etc.

For the Muslim members, Ramadan Mubarak. Apologies if spelt incorrectly.
 
They do have a point regarding sunrise and sunset. Using that as a marker means that ramadan varies widely in different parts of the world, so different muslims are treated very differently by it. Is that what the founders of islam intended? How could you tell? Some parts of the world don't have a true sunrise or sunset for months, so using sunrise and sunset there is impossible.

Well the founders of Islam probably weren't aware of it, though there is a workaround now of just using Mecca time instead.

Few years ago in the UK, Ramadhan was during winter. I remember it was barely a fast, rather a late lunch. This shift is obviously experienced throughout the world over the course of a decade. So we may have it a little more difficult this year, in a few years it'll be significantly easier. So the entire world experiences these peaks and troughs.

That's not true - depends how far from the equator you are. AFAIK if you're in the position where there is barely any, or even no nighttime then AFAIK you follow Mecca time. you'd have to be quite far away from the equator though for that to happen, closer to the equator you don't have those variations as much.

It's only a point if you think the total hours and minutes spent fasting is important. If that isn't an issue then the varying daylight hours isn't a big deal either.

True - you could ignore actual daylight and night time hours and just give yourself a fixed time slot to do it - just use Mecca hours instead as per workaround mentioned above.
 
Well the founders of Islam probably weren't aware of it

How could they not be aware of it? They were in direct communication with God. Surely he would have thought to mention things like that? I mean he is all knowing.
 
How could they not be aware of it? They were in direct communication with God. Surely he would have thought to mention things like that? I mean he is all knowing.

I don’t think I could reasonably give answers to those questions in this thread while adhering to the rules so I’ll respectfully decline. :)
 
Hi Angilion. It's a fair question and one that is asked annually. Give or take the Islamic calendar is the same length yearly (much like our Gregorian calander with the occasion leap year). [..]

Yes, but it's the wrong length. That's why ramadan drifts significantly from year to year.

It's only a point if you think the total hours and minutes spent fasting is important. If that isn't an issue then the varying daylight hours isn't a big deal either. [..]

Using that argument, everybody fasts for the great majority of every day except perhaps people in hospital being fed solely intravenously (are they fed constantly?). So yes, obviously the amount of time spent fasting matters. Fasting for 4 hours is very different to fasting for 14 hours, especially when the fasting includes water deprivation as well. Also, my point was, as I said, the result being that different muslims are treated very differently by ramadan solely because the Earth is (almost perfectly) spherical. Should two muslims be treated very differently solely because they live at different latitude?

Well the founders of Islam probably weren't aware of it,

Maybe not, despite the fact that it was known long before they were alive.

though there is a workaround now of just using Mecca time instead. [..]

I think that makes more sense in context(*). Picking one time makes it equal for all muslims and their holiest site would be the most suitable place for setting that time. Not directly, of course, since that would still be widely unequal by location. When it's daytime in Mecca it's nighttime in many other places, for at least part of the day/night. You'd have to do it by decree, e.g. "On such and such a day, fasting is from 08:38 to 19:02, on the next day it's 08:35 to 19:00", etc.




* I think little if anything about any religion makes any sense, so I'm talking about internal consistency.
 
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