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Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

Wolverine2349 said:
I want the best gaming CPU and something that will be great with an RTX 4090.

Though it seems it is going to be a wait for one being the 7000X3D

Raptor Lake is about to be available in just 4 days on October 20.

How would 8 core Raptor Lake with very fast DDR5 in Gear 2 and e-cores disabled compare to 8 core 7700X3D/7800X3D from AMD for gaming.

Will Raptor Lake handily beat Zen 4 gaming like Alder Lake did Zen 3??

And thus 7000X3D trade blows with Raptor Lake like 5800X3D did with 12700K and 12900K Alder Lake in gaming. Or is Ryzen 7000X3D going to smash Raptor Lake even with well tuned fast DDR5 in gaming??
Click to expand...
If you are going to disable ecores, buy Ryzen 3d.

This is a 12900k with ecores on. CPU spikes up to 90+% usage. And you want to disable those ecores. Roger that

youtu.be

12900k Spiderman Hwunboxed settings (High RT 6)

12900kSpiderman framerateRT30901080 dlssSpiderman ddr5
youtu.be youtu.be

If zen 4 3d can catch up to this performance (stock 12900k with mediocre 6000 ram) ill be impressed
 
Last edited:
g67575 said:
Has anyone managed to buy any Teamgroup DDR5 7200 MT/s RAM yet?

Link:
www.overclockers.co.uk

TeamGroup Delta RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-57600C34 7200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01)

Order TeamGroup Delta RGB 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-57600C34 7200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (FF3D532G7200HC34ADC01) now online and benefit from fast delivery.
www.overclockers.co.uk www.overclockers.co.uk

I'm quite curious to see how it performs...
Click to expand...
I've had some sitting in it's box for about a week or two now, just waiting for my 13900k and z790 board to come in - I've not really bothered with benching for years outside of cinebench when I first got my 5900x, what tests would be ones you'd be interested in seeing?
 
Bencher said:
If you are going to disable ecores, buy Ryzen 3d.

This is a 12900k with ecores on. CPU spikes up to 90+% usage. And you want to disable those ecores. Roger that

youtu.be

12900k Spiderman Hwunboxed settings (High RT 6)

12900kSpiderman framerateRT30901080 dlssSpiderman ddr5
youtu.be youtu.be

If zen 4 3d can catch up to this performance (stock 12900k with mediocre 6000 ram) ill be impressed
Click to expand...


Well Zen 3 3D cache which is the Ryzen 5800X trades blows and is pretty even with 12900K in gaming.

www.youtube.com

40 Game CPU Benchmark: Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs. Core i9-12900K

Asus combo deal: https://www.asus.com/au/events/infoM/3280/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hardwareunboxedJoin us on Floatplane: https://www.f...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

So the 7000 X3D should be much better if it has the same uplift over regular Zen 4.

As for e-cores, how could they help with anything?? Therte are like no games out there that use lots of threads. Are WIndows updates and lots of heavy stuff running in background that are taking lots of CPU cycles from the P cores that otherwise go to e-cores?? And no HWInfo64 and lightweight AntiVirus like NOD32 or do not count as those use such an itty bity amount of CPU cycles to be like nill. Windows updates yeah as they tax the CPU somewhat a bit when installing.

You are using Windows 11 so maybe that is why disabling e-cores is a problem because the thread director does not know per this and it is bad:

fox-laptop.com

Core i7-12700K review revealing that E-cores hurt P-cores, but without them, everything is only worse

A review of the Core i7-12700K reveals that the presence of E-cores negatively impacts the performance of P-cores, but without them, the overall performance is even worse.
fox-laptop.com fox-laptop.com

Since Windows 11 is aware of thread director, and e-cores off, and no way to disable the thread director switch on Alder Laker, the threads can be mistakenly misordered between logical and real cores incorrectly. Now with HT off then I suppose it would not matter. Though without a thread director aware OS like Windows 10 or maybe earlier versions of WIN11, e-cores off it treats CPU as it would any other 8 core 16 thread CPU which is what it needs to be treated like with e-cores off.

I would get a Ryzen 9 CPU or an Intel one if they had more than 8 cores on a ring as I am not crazy about the e-cores and hybrid arch. Problem is no Intel CPU with more than 8 good cores and AMD's very nice Zen 3 and Zen 4 CPUs with more than 8 cores, they are dual CCD which means severe latency hit when crossing to another CCD which is not good for game threads even though there are more than 8 good cores available for them. Though once again it does not seem any games benefit from more than 8 cores unless you are streaming or have heavy resource background tasks or run foreground like work on a core or 2 on the side.


Ironically it depends on the benchmark you look at in terms of whether e-cores on or off help or hurt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MXaIdPzCkw&t=122s - Appears to not matter or make it worse them off


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMWgOXqP0tc&t=461s - Appears better almost all cases with them off ironically in even CPU heavy threaded games like Cyber Punk 2077 and Far Cry 6. But ironically and defy all logic, Starcraft 2 and CS GO are only 2 that are better with e-cores on despite being single thread limited!! Maybe WIN11 again having issues with the thread director mis assigning threads to logical vs physical P cores with hyper threading. Would be interesting test on WIN10

With WIN10 FPS for me has always been higher with e-cores off. WIN11 sucks and have not tried it much.
 
www.youtube.com

i9 13900K vs R9 7950X - RTX 4090 | 9 Games Test

#13900k #7950x #rtx4090 RTX 13900k + rtx 4090 vs r9 7950x + rtx 4090 test at 1440p max settingsThe Intel Core i9-13900K is a desktop processor with 24 cores,...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

In these benchmarks at same clock speed, 13900K handily beats 7950X with both at 5500MHz with better 1% and 0.1% lows by 10+ FPS in all but MSFS 2020.

In other benchmarks 12900K was slightly behind Ryzen 7000 CPUs running 300-600MHz slower.

So maybe will be a decent uplift in performance after all over Alder Lake in gaming??
 
Last edited:
Nickolp1974 said:
www.youtube.com

13900K EARLY REVIEW + BENCHMARKS EXCLUSIVE

REAL CPU, NO NDA!! DO NOT BUY BEFORE WATCHING!!https://framechasers.org/ - Discord and...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com


Not a great "pre" Review so the AMD boys and girls will love this :D, anyhow was Teamviewer running during the benchmarks????
Click to expand...
May as well stick to whatever you have now if those results are true.

Arrow Lake is supposed to be a good upgrade, so the jump to Meteor Lake next year would make more sense as you could then just drop in a Arrow Lake CPU a year later.
 
If those numbers are what the product is, then is it a better idea to get 7700X for now and then upgrade to the X3D later on?
I'm coming from a 5950X + 3090 PC that I sold few months back and now running a 16" M1 Max Mac.
 
Wolverine2349 said:
Well Zen 3 3D cache which is the Ryzen 5800X trades blows and is pretty even with 12900K in gaming.

www.youtube.com

40 Game CPU Benchmark: Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs. Core i9-12900K

Asus combo deal: https://www.asus.com/au/events/infoM/3280/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hardwareunboxedJoin us on Floatplane: https://www.f...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

So the 7000 X3D should be much better if it has the same uplift over regular Zen 4.

As for e-cores, how could they help with anything?? Therte are like no games out there that use lots of threads. Are WIndows updates and lots of heavy stuff running in background that are taking lots of CPU cycles from the P cores that otherwise go to e-cores?? And no HWInfo64 and lightweight AntiVirus like NOD32 or do not count as those use such an itty bity amount of CPU cycles to be like nill. Windows updates yeah as they tax the CPU somewhat a bit when installing.

You are using Windows 11 so maybe that is why disabling e-cores is a problem because the thread director does not know per this and it is bad:

fox-laptop.com

Core i7-12700K review revealing that E-cores hurt P-cores, but without them, everything is only worse

A review of the Core i7-12700K reveals that the presence of E-cores negatively impacts the performance of P-cores, but without them, the overall performance is even worse.
fox-laptop.com fox-laptop.com

Since Windows 11 is aware of thread director, and e-cores off, and no way to disable the thread director switch on Alder Laker, the threads can be mistakenly misordered between logical and real cores incorrectly. Now with HT off then I suppose it would not matter. Though without a thread director aware OS like Windows 10 or maybe earlier versions of WIN11, e-cores off it treats CPU as it would any other 8 core 16 thread CPU which is what it needs to be treated like with e-cores off.

I would get a Ryzen 9 CPU or an Intel one if they had more than 8 cores on a ring as I am not crazy about the e-cores and hybrid arch. Problem is no Intel CPU with more than 8 good cores and AMD's very nice Zen 3 and Zen 4 CPUs with more than 8 cores, they are dual CCD which means severe latency hit when crossing to another CCD which is not good for game threads even though there are more than 8 good cores available for them. Though once again it does not seem any games benefit from more than 8 cores unless you are streaming or have heavy resource background tasks or run foreground like work on a core or 2 on the side.


Ironically it depends on the benchmark you look at in terms of whether e-cores on or off help or hurt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MXaIdPzCkw&t=122s - Appears to not matter or make it worse them off


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMWgOXqP0tc&t=461s - Appears better almost all cases with them off ironically in even CPU heavy threaded games like Cyber Punk 2077 and Far Cry 6. But ironically and defy all logic, Starcraft 2 and CS GO are only 2 that are better with e-cores on despite being single thread limited!! Maybe WIN11 again having issues with the thread director mis assigning threads to logical vs physical P cores with hyper threading. Would be interesting test on WIN10

With WIN10 FPS for me has always been higher with e-cores off. WIN11 sucks and have not tried it much.
Click to expand...
Spiderman remastered with ecores off is substantially worse than with ecores on. I uploaded a video, did you watch it? That's with ecores on, did you see the cpu usage? How can you say it doesnt make use of them when cpu is hitting 90+% utilization.

Farcry 6 also performs worse with ecores off, I don't know wtf this guy tested but he is wrong.

The reason you need ecores on is so you can turn off HT and get +100/200 mhz on the Pcores while still having plenty of MT performance for games that need it (like spiderman). Εven the review you linked to prove otherwise reccomends leaving them on for games. And look at the results, every game performs the same or better wtih e cores on...
 
Last edited:
Vega said:
I've noticed that behavior too. I always wondered why one thread just doesn't max out one core. Something to do with processing inefficiencies with just one thread?
Click to expand...
Several reasons.
Whenever pipeline is stalled for memory or other reasons, the backend is left doing nothing which could be used.
Whenever a thread is spin-waiting, certain instructions in the spin loop (pause) allows the other thread to effectively have all resources for a number of cycles, greatly increasing throughput.
A thread may be busy doing floating point instructions leaving integer or memory units unused/under-used, which could be used by another thread.
 
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