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Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

uscool said:
Meteor Lake is going chiplets so will be interesting how that goes
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We just have to hope and pray that the node/tech doesn't have sapphire rapids level of delays. That product is just starting shipping now but was meant to be shipping in 2017... I wonder what tech they end up using, you would guess a combination of emib and foveros, certainly much more interesting times ahead.
 
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Not had a chance to watch any reviews yet but seen some graphs floating around, 13900k looks to beat the 7950x 60/40 across most of the popular games.

Not enough of a jump for me to move from my 5950x though, that includes the 7950x too.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Because again AMD(like with the Zen3 launch),made the Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 CPUs cost more per core than the Ryzen 9 models. If the Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X had the same per core price,the Ryzen 5 7600X would be around £290 and the Ryzen 7 7700X would be around £385. The Ryzen 5 7600X looks utterly underwhelming compared to the Core i5 13600KF IMHO,especially if you look outside gaming benchmarks.
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The last couple of gens Intel have been busy increasing core counts while AMD have just increase the price so now AMDs 6 core CPU have gone from being much better value and similar performance with the 3600 vs the 10600k to now being totally outclased on performance and subsequently terrible value with the 7600X vs 13600k.
 
Vince said:
We just have to hope and pray that the node/tech doesn't have sapphire rapids level of delays. That product is just starting shipping now but was meant to be shipping in 2017... I wonder what tech they end up using, you would guess a combination of emib and foveros, certainly much more interesting times ahead.
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We do, but I hear it isn’t going great. Although “not going great” in regards to Intel’s manufacturing could mean anything.
 
Joxeon said:
The last couple of gens Intel have been busy increasing core counts while AMD have just increase the price so now AMDs 6 core CPU have gone from being much better value and similar performance with the 3600 vs the 10600k to now being totally outclased on performance and subsequently terrible value with the 7600X vs 13600k.
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It's not also helped that overpriced products such as a Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X,are easily beaten in price/performance by a £350 Core i5. A £350 CPU isn't cheap either,so Intel gets to rise its price too. They did the same nonsense during the Athlon 64 era too.
 
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Joxeon said:
The last couple of gens Intel have been busy increasing core counts while AMD have just increase the price so now AMDs 6 core CPU have gone from being much better value and similar performance with the 3600 vs the 10600k to now being totally outclased on performance and subsequently terrible value with the 7600X vs 13600k.
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But the 13600k costs more though they increased the price over what 12600k was it's not all roses

Not seen gaming difference but whats the point adding 8 e cores on 13600k ? Don't seem to do anything for games ? Rather have less for lower cost and power

You'd think with competition we'd get better prices to choose from both
 
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humbug said:
You call this tech leadership?

Its a good chip but seriously?

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Yeah that's a fair point, but there are only 8 'Raptor Cove'/P cores with SMT to Zen4's 16 with the rest of the thread count made up by the 'Gracemont' e-cores. It's not really apples with apples. And as good as the Intel 7 process node is it's not as efficient as the TSMC 5nm node used in the 7000 series. Raptor Lake has the best single-core performance, the productivity benchmarks are mixed but Intel is on top more often than AMD (from what I've seen so far anyway) and although that power consumption is a bit high it's showing that a design is good enough that a less advanced manufacturing process (non EUV lithography/10nm though probalby similar to TSMC 7nm in PPA terms) can compete with the leading-edge TSMC process node. IIRC Raptor Lake is a monolithic design as well, so all else equal the yields are going to be lower than the comparable MCM/chiplet design used by AMD...and Intel are winning on price across the product stack. These are also relatively synthetic benchmarks and the hybrid (P/E core) architecture will probably see some real-world efficiency gains thanks to the Windows 11 thread director.

I only upgraded to a 5950x last year so I'm not going to jump on Raptor Lake, but if I was upgading today I'd be with team Blue. Meteor Lake will be out next year and will include a process node shrink (Intel 4) with a move to EUV lithography and MCM/Chiplet designs (foveros?) whereas AMD's cadence means their top end SKUs will still be 7000 series. And by the time AMD are ready to bring out a new chip, Intel will be relasing Arrow Lake, which will be on 20A and possibly use TSMC silicon for the execution cores.

it's perhaps not tech leadership in the absolute sense, but I think it's another data point showing that things are moving in Intel's favour. Feels like we're witnessing the end of AMD's short-lived dominance in CPU. Jim Keller (the guy who led the team that designed Zen) reckons Zen will need a bottom-up rewrite after this generation, and Intel have hired some really smart engineers in the last few years. It's great to see competition pushing performance further, and I'm super pleased to see Intel push things after _years_ of rubbish post Skylake (or arguably Haswell/Devil's Canyon). It's a great time to be a PC enthusiast :)
 
Wintermute2 said:
Yeah that's a fair point, but there are only 8 'Raptor Cove'/P cores with SMT to Zen4's 16 with the rest of the thread count made up by the 'Gracemont' e-cores. It's not really apples with apples. And as good as the Intel 7 process node is it's not as efficient as the TSMC 5nm node used in the 7000 series. Raptor Lake has the best single-core performance, the productivity benchmarks are mixed but Intel is on top more often than AMD (from what I've seen so far anyway) and although that power consumption is a bit high it's showing that a design is good enough that a less advanced manufacturing process (non EUV lithography/10nm though probalby similar to TSMC 7nm in PPA terms) can compete with the leading-edge TSMC process node. IIRC Raptor Lake is a monolithic design as well, so all else equal the yields are going to be lower than the comparable MCM/chiplet design used by AMD...and Intel are winning on price across the product stack. These are also relatively synthetic benchmarks and the hybrid (P/E core) architecture will probably see some real-world efficiency gains thanks to the Windows 11 thread director.

I only upgraded to a 5950x last year so I'm not going to jump on Raptor Lake, but if I was upgading today I'd be with team Blue. Meteor Lake will be out next year and will include a process node shrink (Intel 4) with a move to EUV lithography and MCM/Chiplet designs (foveros?) whereas AMD's cadence means their top end SKUs will still be 7000 series. And by the time AMD are ready to bring out a new chip, Intel will be relasing Arrow Lake, which will be on 20A and possibly use TSMC silicon for the execution cores.

it's perhaps not tech leadership in the absolute sense, but I think it's another data point showing that things are moving in Intel's favour. Feels like we're witnessing the end of AMD's short-lived dominance in CPU. Jim Keller (the guy who led the team that designed Zen) reckons Zen will need a bottom-up rewrite after this generation, and Intel have hired some really smart engineers in the last few years. It's great to see competition pushing performance further, and I'm super pleased to see Intel push things after _years_ of rubbish post Skylake (or arguably Haswell/Devil's Canyon). It's a great time to be a PC enthusiast :)
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tbf we dont know where each of them will end up with the next releases either could flop

Meteor Lake should arrive toward the end of 2023 and Zen 5 for 2024 that could be the beginning but we dont know but going by past releases it seems to be towards the end

AMD is terming the Zen 5 architecture as an “All-new microarchitecture”. Which is to say, it’s not merely going to be an incremental improvement over Zen 4.
In practice, no major vendor designs a CPU architecture completely from scratch – there’s always going to be something good enough for reuse – but the message from AMD is clear: they’re going to be doing some significant reworking of their core CPU architecture in order to further improve their performance as well as energy efficiency.
 
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uscool said:
But the 13600k costs more though they increased the price over what 12600k was it's not all roses

Not seen gaming difference but whats the point adding 8 e cores on 13600k ? Don't seem to do anything for games ? Rather have less for lower cost and power

You'd think with competition we'd get better prices to choose from both
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It's not much more than a 7600X while matching or beating a 7700X, you have the option of cheaper 600 series motherboards as well as DDR4/5.
 
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