RTX 4070 12GB, is it Worth it?

muon · 24 Apr 2023 at 00:35

We already know why they are high. We were told this last year.

Nvidia have loads of Ampere cards left. Look at how many 3060 Ti cards are in stock across retailers. Each one has like 10-20 SKUs in stock. I'm guessing there are loads of GA104/106 dies left.

This website has loads

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti Graphics Cards Available at Overclockers UK

The latest Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 Ti graphics cards open up a world of possibilities delivering up to 2x the performance of previous-generation RTX graphics cards thanks to the latest Nvidia Ampere architecture. The RTX 30 Series offers cutting edge artificial intelligence and hyper-realistic...

www.overclockers.co.uk

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Graphics Cards Available at Overclockers UK

The latest Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 graphics cards open up a world of possibilities delivering up to 2x the performance of previous-generation RTX graphics cards thanks to the latest Nvidia Ampere architecture. The RTX 30 Series offers cutting edge artificial intelligence and hyper-realistic...

www.overclockers.co.uk

AMD also have loads of RDNA2 cards left which aren't selling out even after massive price cuts.

chrcoluk · 24 Apr 2023 at 01:25

kalniel said:
Eh? Not sure what value has to do with the fact jay didn't bother to use the voltage curve to adjust voltage rather than the slider.

No, that has no impact on my comment.

My comment was more in line with baseline performance and VRAM capacity.

Although your point highlights how out of tune some of the big pc tech guys are, out of date thinking slider is still the way to go.

chrcoluk · 24 Apr 2023 at 01:29

Author_25 said:
Interesting video on VRAM.

VRAM - is 8GB or 12GB really enough to play Games in 2023?

Gaming graphics cards (GPUs) can have anywhere from 24GB of VRAM (think RTX 4090 and RX 7900 XTX) to as low as 1GB of VRAM (GT710), though how much is enough...

youtu.be

Is it another lazy test, or did he actually look at if is dynamic texture quality issues, textures vanishing etc?

I am too lazy to watch the very long video to find out.

Grim5 · 24 Apr 2023 at 02:41

chrcoluk said:
Is it another lazy test, or did he actually look at if is dynamic texture quality issues, textures vanishing etc?

I am too lazy to watch the very long video to find out.

It's a pretty crap test. He did not measure latency, frametimes, check for stuttering or check for texture streaming, pop-in and low res asset issues

Jono8 · 24 Apr 2023 at 08:40

muon said:
We already know why they are high. We were told this last year.

Nvidia have loads of Ampere cards left. Look at how many 3060 Ti cards are in stock across retailers. Each one has like 10-20 SKUs in stock. I'm guessing there are loads of GA104/106 dies left.

This website has loads

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti Graphics Cards Available at Overclockers UK

The latest Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 Ti graphics cards open up a world of possibilities delivering up to 2x the performance of previous-generation RTX graphics cards thanks to the latest Nvidia Ampere architecture. The RTX 30 Series offers cutting edge artificial intelligence and hyper-realistic...

www.overclockers.co.uk

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Graphics Cards Available at Overclockers UK

The latest Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 graphics cards open up a world of possibilities delivering up to 2x the performance of previous-generation RTX graphics cards thanks to the latest Nvidia Ampere architecture. The RTX 30 Series offers cutting edge artificial intelligence and hyper-realistic...

www.overclockers.co.uk

AMD also have loads of RDNA2 cards left which aren't selling out even after massive price cuts.

What I don't understand is, what has changed from before?

Before the 3xxx series, most of the time a new generation came out, all the old stuff was sold mega cheap to clear stock.

I just don't understand this tactic of keeping the old stuff at the same price and releasing the new stuff all at higher price points, instead of just replacing the old ones.

It feels illogical and perhaps even driven by some sort of algorithm/ AI that can't understand why 3 series sales were so ridiculously good. So it just thinks that GPUs will always sell out instantly, hence the higher prices.

humbug · 24 Apr 2023 at 08:57

Jono8 said:
What I don't understand is, what has changed from before?

Before the 3xxx series, most of the time a new generation came out, all the old stuff was sold mega cheap to clear stock.

I just don't understand this tactic of keeping the old stuff at the same price and releasing the new stuff all at higher price points, instead of just replacing the old ones.

It feels illogical and perhaps even driven by some sort of algorithm/ AI that can't understand why 3 series sales were so ridiculously good. So it just thinks that GPUs will always sell out instantly, hence the higher prices.

Nvidia made an absolute #### load of Ampere cards thinking the mining bubble was never going to pop, it did and now they are left with a #### load of cards sitting in warehouses, over $2 Billion worth at the latest count, i think it was.

There seems to be quite a narcissistic streak in Nvidia in that instead of accepting they have been done by their own greed and stupidity they will make you pay for what they failed to get out of their scheming.

Its #### like that why i can't stand Nvidia as a company.

Grim5 · 24 Apr 2023 at 09:04

Car dealerships do the same, every year when the new model comes out they stick a higher price on the new one and keep the old one at the same price

SpellowHouse · 24 Apr 2023 at 09:10

Jono8 said:
What I don't understand is, what has changed from before?

Before the 3xxx series, most of the time a new generation came out, all the old stuff was sold mega cheap to clear stock.

I just don't understand this tactic of keeping the old stuff at the same price and releasing the new stuff all at higher price points, instead of just replacing the old ones.

It feels illogical and perhaps even driven by some sort of algorithm/ AI that can't understand why 3 series sales were so ridiculously good. So it just thinks that GPUs will always sell out instantly, hence the higher prices.

I believe some of the problems is that NVIDIA didn't anticipate the mining collapse, and ordered far too many chips. They could not afford to sell them all off cheap. The matter is compounded by the fact that they have apparently ordered too many 4000 series as well.
There is something missing from the story, though, because it doesn't make sense to increase the price and reduce the quality they way they have. I really don't know what is going on in their minds at the moment, but they seem intent on a course of self destruction.

humbug · 24 Apr 2023 at 09:24

SpellowHouse said:
I believe some of the problems is that NVIDIA didn't anticipate the mining collapse, and ordered far too many chips. They could not afford to sell them all off cheap. The matter is compounded by the fact that they have apparently ordered too many 4000 series as well.
There is something missing from the story, though, because it doesn't make sense to increase the price and reduce the quality they way they have. I really don't know what is going on in their minds at the moment, but they seem intent on a course of self destruction.

Pig headedness about their margins and setting the death of Mores law as the new normal, IE price increases every gen from here on.

humbug · 24 Apr 2023 at 09:31

What else are you going to do...? buy AMD or Intel? Pha! Suck it up female dogs.

TNA · 24 Apr 2023 at 09:42

humbug said:
Its #### like that why i can't stand Nvidia as a company.

humbug said:
What else are you going to do...? buy AMD or Intel? Pha! Suck it up female dogs.

Hahahahaha :cry:

Calin Banc · 24 Apr 2023 at 09:43

opethdisciple said:
I have a feeling DLSS 3 might be the cause of this current trend towards lesser value with the new cards.

Think about it, if Nvidia made the cheaper cards more cost effective than the top tier 4090 when you factor in the use of DLSS3, then people would just choose to get the cheaper card and just use DLSS3.

They need to sell 4090 units, so it makes sense to make it the value proposition rather than going down the stack.

Also could have something to do with the skimpy vram too.

Again, imagine a 4070 with 16Gb and DLSS3 for £600. That would be simply astonishing but would eat in to their sales of the 4080 and 4090 so they have no incentive to do that.

For that to be true you'll need DLSS in every game out there and to work well.
FG only works well, in general, at high frame rates.

Jono8 said:
What I don't understand is, what has changed from before?

Before the 3xxx series, most of the time a new generation came out, all the old stuff was sold mega cheap to clear stock.

I just don't understand this tactic of keeping the old stuff at the same price and releasing the new stuff all at higher price points, instead of just replacing the old ones.

It feels illogical and perhaps even driven by some sort of algorithm/ AI that can't understand why 3 series sales were so ridiculously good. So it just thinks that GPUs will always sell out instantly, hence the higher prices.

They also said good sells are not due to mining, but demand from gaming. Hard to pull that back now

Murphy · 24 Apr 2023 at 09:51

Jono8 said:
I just don't understand this tactic of keeping the old stuff at the same price and releasing the new stuff all at higher price points, instead of just replacing the old ones.

It's because, as he said in an earnings call, Jensen thinks the ASP of graphics cards should be the same as the cost of consoles.

Author_25 · 24 Apr 2023 at 09:53

Could Intel Save Us??????

Intel XeSS Destroys AMD FSR 2 In Cyberpunk 2077, Comes Close To NVIDIA DLSS 3 In Image Quality

Intel's XeSS upscaling tech comes out ahead of AMD FSR 2 in Cyberpunk 2077 and almost matches NVIDIA DLSS 3 in image quality.

wccftech.com

humbug · 24 Apr 2023 at 09:55

Unfortunately No ^^^^
----------------------

People only buy shares in your company if they get something in return, IE more money than they put in.

For that to happen your profits need to be increasing perpetually, because the moment it doesn't is the moments you have to pay the people who put their money in that money back, because they pull it out.

In that sense its not too dissimilar to a Ponzi Scheme, at least it has a similar flaw in needing to constantly generate new cash to stop the pyramid from collapsing.

One way to do that is to keep selling a higher volume of products, you continuously increase your consumer base and or market share.
Eventually you become the monopoly, you have corned the market, you can no longer increase your market share.
So now what? You reduce your costs and with that increase your margins.
That also has its limits, so what now? You increase your prices and hope you don't lose market share by doing that.

Gibbo · 24 Apr 2023 at 09:59

muon said:
We already know why they are high. We were told this last year.

Nvidia have loads of Ampere cards left. Look at how many 3060 Ti cards are in stock across retailers. Each one has like 10-20 SKUs in stock. I'm guessing there are loads of GA104/106 dies left.

This website has loads

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti Graphics Cards Available at Overclockers UK

The latest Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 Ti graphics cards open up a world of possibilities delivering up to 2x the performance of previous-generation RTX graphics cards thanks to the latest Nvidia Ampere architecture. The RTX 30 Series offers cutting edge artificial intelligence and hyper-realistic...

www.overclockers.co.uk

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Graphics Cards Available at Overclockers UK

The latest Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 graphics cards open up a world of possibilities delivering up to 2x the performance of previous-generation RTX graphics cards thanks to the latest Nvidia Ampere architecture. The RTX 30 Series offers cutting edge artificial intelligence and hyper-realistic...

www.overclockers.co.uk

AMD also have loads of RDNA2 cards left which aren't selling out even after massive price cuts.

Considering we used to list up to 45 separate 3060Ti and around 50 3060's were now actually in a state of not having loads only having 7 separate 3060Ti SKU's in low amounts of stock and 11 separate 3060 SKU's again in low stock amounts. So though it looks loads to you, to me were at a fraction of where we used to be when these were new high demand products as I am now running these parts down so when new products come we have no surplus stock to worry about or have to shift at considerable losses to ourselves.

TNA · 24 Apr 2023 at 09:59

Author_25 said:
Could Intel Save Us??????

Intel XeSS Destroys AMD FSR 2 In Cyberpunk 2077, Comes Close To NVIDIA DLSS 3 In Image Quality

Intel's XeSS upscaling tech comes out ahead of AMD FSR 2 in Cyberpunk 2077 and almost matches NVIDIA DLSS 3 in image quality.

wccftech.com

Someone needs to. We stuck with greedy Nvidia and almost as good but also almost as greedy AMD.

More choice and competition the better. If AMD don't up their game they are going to get wiped out if Intel actually push on with ARC. Without Intel they are at 9% market share. What happens if in the next few gens Intel catch up?

AMD need to improve FSR big time and sort out pricing. Really hope they do that by the time their next gen launches.

humbug · 24 Apr 2023 at 10:00

humbug said:
Unfortunately No ^^^^
----------------------

People only buy shares in your company if they get something in return, IE more money than they put in.

For that to happen your profits need to be increasing perpetually, because the moment it doesn't is the moments you have to pay the people who put their money in that money back, because they pull it out.

In that sense its not too dissimilar to a Ponzi Scheme, at least it has a similar flaw in needing to constantly generate new cash to stop the pyramid from collapsing.

One way to do that is to keep selling a higher volume of products, you continuously increase your consumer base and or market share.
Eventually you become the monopoly, you have corned the market, you can no longer increase your market share.
So now what? You reduce your costs and with that increase your margins.
That also has its limits, so what now? You increase your prices and hope you don't lose market share by doing that.

BTW, guess where Nvidia are in that ^^^^

Joxeon · 24 Apr 2023 at 10:03

Calin Banc said:
FG only works well, in general, at high frame rates.

Try applying FG to this

DavidTJ · 24 Apr 2023 at 10:05

Jono8 said:
What I don't understand is, what has changed from before?

Before the 3xxx series, most of the time a new generation came out, all the old stuff was sold mega cheap to clear stock.

I just don't understand this tactic of keeping the old stuff at the same price and releasing the new stuff all at higher price points, instead of just replacing the old ones.

It feels illogical and perhaps even driven by some sort of algorithm/ AI that can't understand why 3 series sales were so ridiculously good. So it just thinks that GPUs will always sell out instantly, hence the higher prices.

What changes is COVID and crypto

The price of semi conductors and transport skyrocketed. Prices went up but demand from both crypto and high paid people without other outlets for their cash. So cards sold out instantly and people paid inflated scalpers pricing.

Nvidia and AMD saw an opportunity to set a new bottom of the market, and have been very reluctant to go back. Especially as they probably paid well over the odds for the components having to buy them when there were mass shortages.

AMD may change its approach as they have such low market share. But for Nvidia there approach has appeared to be working. They got a lot of stick for the 4070ti pricing and naming but it's still well over historical pricing and I believe selling well.

If you look at the historical price of 60 line Nvidia GPUs 960, 1060, 2060 (from what others have said the naming is one level higher on Nvidia cards so a 4070 should really be called a 4060) there still a large premium even when taking to account inflation and vat.

The performance jump is quite low so if the cute the price of the 30 series no-one will buy the 40 series.

The 3070 was 25% better than the 2080. The 4070 is equivalent to the 3080 but less power. 4070ti is 17% better than 3080 (hence the reason people feel the names were inflated)