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RTX 4070 12GB, is it Worth it?

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TNA said:
Someone needs to. We stuck with greedy Nvidia and almost as good but also almost as greedy AMD.

More choice and competition the better. If AMD don't up their game they are going to get wiped out if Intel actually push on with ARC. Without Intel they are at 9% market share. What happens if in the next few gens Intel catch up?

AMD need to improve FSR big time and sort out pricing. Really hope they do that by the time their next gen launches.
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Its looking like in one generation, Intel, have almost caught up on Nvidia with XESS, so that is promising.

In terms of hardware the ARC cards were quite good they were just let down by the drivers, but even here Intel are improving by leaps and bounds.
Intel BattleMage is looking promising, hardware wise, and with the drivers vastly improved should have a better launch than the A750/A770.

Who would have thought people would be cheering for Intel to out do AMD and Nvidia and take a bigger market share.
 
Author_25 said:
Its looking like in one generation, Intel, have almost caught up on Nvidia with XESS, so that is promising.

In terms of hardware the ARC cards were quite good they were just let down by the drivers, but even here Intel are improving by leaps and bounds.
Intel BattleMage is looking promising, hardware wise, and with the drivers vastly improved should have a better launch than the A750/A770.

Who would have thought people would be cheering for Intel to out do AMD and Nvidia and take a bigger market share.
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I might end up on an all Intel system in a few gens :cry:

And that's something I never thought would happen.
 
DavidTJ said:
What changes is COVID and crypto

The price of semi conductors and transport skyrocketed. Prices went up but demand from both crypto and high paid people without other outlets for their cash. So cards sold out instantly and people paid inflated scalpers pricing.

Nvidia and AMD saw an opportunity to set a new bottom of the market, and have been very reluctant to go back. Especially as they probably paid well over the odds for the components having to buy them when there were mass shortages.

AMD may change its approach as they have such low market share. But for Nvidia there approach has appeared to be working. They got a lot of stick for the 4070ti pricing and naming but it's still well over historical pricing and I believe selling well.

If you look at the historical price of 60 line Nvidia GPUs 960, 1060, 2060 (from what others have said the naming is one level higher on Nvidia cards so a 4070 should really be called a 4060) there still a large premium even when taking to account inflation and vat.

The performance jump is quite low so if the cute the price of the 30 series no-one will buy the 40 series.

The 3070 was 25% better than the 2080. The 4070 is equivalent to the 3080 but less power. 4070ti is 17% better than 3080 (hence the reason people feel the names were inflated)
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Covid and Crypto has little to do with it, Nvidia has a lot of excess stock due putting all their eggs in that basket and not realizing just how temporary that was going to be.
Its not the reason for the price increases on this new generation which are also less an increase in performance over the last generation than is traditional.
They are at a lower value, at an increased cost.

Nvidia have just about every consumer its possible to get buying their products, how do you grow your revenue from that? Genuine question.
 
Author_25 said:
Its looking like in one generation, Intel, have almost caught up on Nvidia with XESS, so that is promising.

In terms of hardware the ARC cards were quite good they were just let down by the drivers, but even here Intel are improving by leaps and bounds.
Intel BattleMage is looking promising, hardware wise, and with the drivers vastly improved should have a better launch than the A750/A770.

Who would have thought people would be cheering for Intel to out do AMD and Nvidia and take a bigger market share.
Click to expand...

Intel's problem is the same problem facing AMD, its Nvidia.
Saying XESS is better than FSR but not quite as good as DLSS doesn't make people buy Intel GPU's, it makes them buy Nvidia GPU's, Its an advert for Nvidia.

AMD are far better positioned than Intel to take on Nvidia, the reason they aren't is because the same people who are now trying to champion Intel to challenge Nvidia put Nvidia on this impossibly high pedestal to begin with and made that job that much more difficult, now instead of realizing that their promoting Intel despite thier frankly broken over priced GPU's does nothing but promote Nvidia again.
 
humbug said:
Covid and Crypto has little to do with it, Nvidia has a lot of excess stock due putting all their eggs in that basket and not realizing just how temporary that was going to be.
Its not the reason for the price increases on this new generation which are also less an increase in performance over the last generation than is traditional.
They are at a lower value, at an increased cost.

Nvidia have just about every consumer its possible to get buying their products, how do you grow your revenue from that? Genuine question.
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The quickest way to increase your profit is to increase your prices. As you say Nvidia are almost at saturation, guess what they are having to do to keep growing and keep investors. What should really happen is these huge, virtual monopolies should get to a certain size, can grow no more and then break up. What actually happens is they manipulate the market using their financial muscle. Companies need to fail and new ones come along to replace them/improve on them. I've been telling people about the stockmarket Ponzi scheme for ages. Once it's dominated by a handful of global companies how will they grow their share prices?
 
humbug said:
Covid and Crypto has little to do with it, Nvidia has a lot of excess stock due putting all their eggs in that basket and not realizing just how temporary that was going to be.
Its not the reason for the price increases on this new generation which are also less an increase in performance over the last generation than is traditional.
They are at a lower value, at an increased cost.

Nvidia have just about every consumer its possible to get buying their products, how do you grow your revenue from that? Genuine question.
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But Nvidia been market dominant for what 10 years so why now?

In my opinion it's because scalping and sell outs during lock down showed them that that could up the prices by a lot.
 
Troezar said:
The quickest way to increase your profit is to increase your prices. As you say Nvidia are almost at saturation, guess what they are having to do to keep growing and keep investors. What should really happen is these huge, virtual monopolies should get to a certain size, can grow no more and then break up. What actually happens is they manipulate the market using their financial muscle. Companies need to fail and new ones come along to replace them/improve on them. I've been telling people about the stockmarket Ponzi scheme for ages. Once it's dominated by a handful of global companies how will they grow their share prices?
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Right, exactly....
 
humbug said:
Intel's problem is the same problem facing AMD, its Nvidia.
Saying XESS is better than FSR but not quite as good as DLSS doesn't make people buy Intel GPU's, it makes them buy Nvidia GPU's, Its an advert for Nvidia.

AMD are far better positioned than Intel to take on Nvidia, the reason they aren't is because the same people who are now trying to champion Intel to challenge Nvidia put Nvidia on this impossibly high pedestal to begin with and made that job that much more difficult, now instead of realizing that their promoting Intel despite thier frankly broken over priced GPU's does nothing but promote Nvidia again.
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In part you are right but XESS has made far bigger leaps in improvement than AMD has in FSR, and Intel are still on Gen 1 of XESS.

AMD are in a better position but they fail to make the most of that position and are not aggressive enough in there marketing.

What a lot of gamers want is a 3 way fight so there is greater competition and hopefully better prices and more innovation.

I am also willing to give Intel time as they are new to the dGPU market and despite there ARC launch not going well the cards are improving, via the drivers, as the hardware has proven more solid than many believed.
 
Author_25 said:
In part you are right but XESS has made far bigger leaps in improvement than AMD has in FSR, and Intel are still on Gen 1 of XESS.

AMD are in a better position but they fail to make the most of that position and are not aggressive enough in there marketing.

What a lot of gamers want is a 3 way fight so there is greater competition and hopefully better prices and more innovation.

I am also willing to give Intel time as they are new to the dGPU market and despite there ARC launch not going well the cards are improving, via the drivers, as the hardware has proven more solid than many believed.
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This obsession with up-scaling tech and other such software features is why Nvidia can never lose.
 
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humbug said:
Unfortunately No ^^^^
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People only buy shares in your company if they get something in return, IE more money than they put in.

For that to happen your profits need to be increasing perpetually, because the moment it doesn't is the moments you have to pay the people who put their money in that money back, because they pull it out.

In that sense its not too dissimilar to a Ponzi Scheme, at least it has a similar flaw in needing to constantly generate new cash to stop the pyramid from collapsing.

One way to do that is to keep selling a higher volume of products, you continuously increase your consumer base and or market share.
Eventually you become the monopoly, you have corned the market, you can no longer increase your market share.
So now what? You reduce your costs and with that increase your margins.
That also has its limits, so what now? You increase your prices and hope you don't lose market share by doing that.
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One of the problems with Capitalism "infinite growth in a finite system".
Joxeon said:
Try applying FG to this :p

Screenshot-536.png
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If you play with a sword and don't relay much on accuracy kt could work. But probably not very good for pew pew pew.
humbug said:
This obsession with up-scaling tech and other such software features is why Nvidia can never lose.
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If others decide to not properly compete, like with RT, of course it won't lose. It can't.
 
You see its because Intel do (DLSS) second best that you're promoting them, they have nothing else going for them... you're using Nvidia's marketing feature to try and promote something that isn't Nvidia, so Nvidia win.
 
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In fairness AMD could probably stand to hire another 10,000 people or so to help out with its graphics division, especially on the software side. Especially given they're trying to do more than Nvidia (compete in x86!) with fewer people.
 
humbug said:
Intel's problem is the same problem facing AMD, its Nvidia.
Saying XESS is better than FSR but not quite as good as DLSS doesn't make people buy Intel GPU's, it makes them buy Nvidia GPU's, Its an advert for Nvidia.

AMD are far better positioned than Intel to take on Nvidia, the reason they aren't is because the same people who are now trying to champion Intel to challenge Nvidia put Nvidia on this impossibly high pedestal to begin with and made that job that much more difficult, now instead of realizing that their promoting Intel despite thier frankly broken over priced GPU's does nothing but promote Nvidia again.
Click to expand...

It also might have a little something to do with some people slaging of Nvidia at every opportunity, biging up AMD, but ultimately still keep buying Nvidia :cry:
 
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