Russian airliner missing over Egypt

[DJMK4]

I'd imagine the chances of getting such a device on a flight originating from airports such as Heathrow, Amsterdam, Munich, LAX etc has been virtually zero, and has probably been so ever since just after the Lockerbie bombings. The problem, as we've seen, are less secure airports such as Sharm El-Sheik.

This is why a major security audit needs to be done, bar needs to be raised and it needs there needs to be quartarly checks to ensure they are hitting security targets. This should be a standard across all international airports. Countries of High risk of terrorism being a priority

Egypt is a highly popular destination for holidaymakers, well its declining since threat but still.

All international airports should be inline with security, if they are not, penalise them or take other action.

There will be improvements on this though

 

[Jokester]

The news article said that a person what have had to detonate it onboard as it has no remote control attached.

Will be interesting to see if they ever come up with evidence of any stow aways as I don't think there's been any suggestion of dodgy looking passengers/crew.

 

[Domo]

Indeed. Last time I flew from Newark I incurred the wrath of TSA for having a small bottle of water in my carry-on which I had forgotten to remove.

Better than Heathrow then. Forgot to remove my liquids from by laptop bag just a couple of weeks back and nobody stopped me. Was surprised. I've left my laptop in by bag before and that's prompted a search, inc. swabbing devices for analysis.

 

[itchy]

Am no expert but how could a can take a plane down?

If it was full of Semtex or C4 then yes but, how would you get it in the can without compromising the appearance ?

Not sure what to make of it all really, plus the picture shows a switch?

Who pressed it? How did they know they would be in the tail section?

Which happens to be one of the most weakest part of any aircraft.

If a lump a marzipan can get through security, am going to Wales next year.

 

[Domo]

I thought it was most likely the device had been planted by an airport worker so passenger security plays no part in this (as terrifying as that is).

Who's to say that image is entirely representative of what was used anyway?

 

[Rroff]

Just the one point highlighted above rules out ISIS as a state, they can't enter into relations with other states because they want to fight everyone.

Regardless of the previous topic wondering's, lets try and keep on track here with the OP gents, awful loss of life and now confirmed as a terrorist act.

Not only do they want to fight everyone the interpretation of Islam they are following forbids negotiation in this context (other than temporary as a means to and end) and would also fail on the defined land aspect as a Caliphate "does not have borders".

 

[Mynight]

I'd be surprised if they managed to get a blasting cap onboard. The drinks can bit wouldn't be so difficult assuming it was just packaged up with the rest. However I didn't think there would be access to storage compartments from the cabin.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if this was just an Isis attempt of look how easily we did it to make people more paranoid.

 

[Sin_Chase]

I'd be surprised if they managed to get a blasting cap onboard. The drinks can bit wouldn't be so difficult assuming it was just packaged up with the rest. However I didn't think there would be access to storage compartments from the cabin.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if this was just an Isis attempt of look how easily we did it to make people more paranoid.

The detonator is likely pictured for illustration only.

It would be inserted appropriately into the main charge. It's interesting to note that's likely a military electrical det (colour, shape and size) and is not home made.

The can affords no containment for a low explosive charge to be amplified and using a HE det indicates a HE charge. Something stable enough for that application. Wouldn't surprise me if it was plastics.

 

[Rroff]

The can affords no containment for a low explosive charge to be amplified and using a HE det indicates a HE charge. Something stable enough for that application. Wouldn't surprise me if it was plastics.

Which is a worrying trend - a concerning move several rungs up the ladder of sophistication if this and the Paris attacks are part of the same over-arching planning - obviously different cells but if there is a link between them at a higher level they definitely have a lot more planned than what we've seen so far.

 

[Mynight]

The detonator is likely pictured for illustration only.

It would be inserted appropriately into the main charge. It's interesting to note that's likely a military electrical det (colour, shape and size) and is not home made.

The can affords no containment for a low explosive charge to be amplified and using a HE det indicates a HE charge. Something stable enough for that application. Wouldn't surprise me if it was plastics.

Hmm. While I'm far from an explosives expert there's a vast amount of information online pertaining to creating such explosives from chemicals that are relatively easy to obtain. I do understand enough chemistry to see these could be realistic. So it doesn't even have to be military grade they can make it in a kitchen (assuming they know what they're doing).

Then again I thought modern airlines were supposed to be able to contain modest blasts within cargo holds to prevent such a thing or at least not disintegrate. I cant imagine many explosives the size of a coke can produce enough force.

I cant help but wonder how it was detonated only conceivable answer I think of would be a timer. I dont think a transmitter would work through a coke can and all the information I can find suggests that the cargo hold cant be accessed from the main cabin. I dont imagine an altitude switch to be feasible as the coke can would negate the pressure change.

 

[Rroff]

I'd imagine its possible to get radio transmission working though more challenging. A timer seems far simpler and more likely though.

A coke can sized device would need some fairly high grade explosives or strategically placed to reliably bring an airliner down hence my worry about the (relative) sophistication of it in that case.

 

[Mynight]

I'd imagine its possible to get radio transmission working though more challenging. A timer seems far simpler and more likely though.

A coke can sized device would need some fairly high grade explosives or strategically placed to reliably bring an airliner down hence my worry about the (relative) sophistication of it in that case.

Only way to know the placement must either be someone on the inside or pure luck. Unless there's a set way they'd store fizzy drink cans in cargo .

 

[Amp34]

The detonator is likely pictured for illustration only.

It would be inserted appropriately into the main charge. It's interesting to note that's likely a military electrical det (colour, shape and size) and is not home made.

The can affords no containment for a low explosive charge to be amplified and using a HE det indicates a HE charge. Something stable enough for that application. Wouldn't surprise me if it was plastics.

They have half the Iraqi army's kit so if wouldn't surprise me if there was Platic explosives and detonators in the haul.

 

[Sin_Chase]

Hmm. While I'm far from an explosives expert there's a vast amount of information online pertaining to creating such explosives from chemicals that are relatively easy to obtain.

Relatively easy to make yes. The resulting most commonly used home made explosives (TATP/HMTD) are rather unstable. Not your ideal choice for an application that may have been used on an aircraft.

As for remote detonation...thin aluminium can would not be a major obstacle. If it was timer based.....you would need a fair degree of satisfaction the flight was leaving on time. either they winged it and hoped for the best or time was set very soon before departure.

But, think outside the box guys - You can use anything to initiate. Altitude switch, tilt switch in combination with a timer. Hell, micro electronics are so cheap and widely available these days you can get as creative as you want and still package the thing easily.

This is all pure speculation of course.

 

[Lashout_UK]

A coke can sized device would need some fairly high grade explosives or strategically placed to reliably bring an airliner

A plane's a pretty frail thing, if you're talking about setting off an explosive inside, and even more so at cruising altitudes.

 

[Rroff]

A plane's a pretty frail thing, if you're talking about setting off an explosive inside, and even more so at cruising altitudes.

Indeed but your average improvised explosive device coke can sized placed randomly in the cargo hold is far from certain to bring a plane down. With more specialised application another story.

 

[matt_fsr]

What's to say it was in the hold? If it was a coke can type object, surely it'd have been detonated in the passenger area? Possibly in one of the toilets, or against a side window?

 

[Rroff]

What's to say it was in the hold? If it was a coke can type object, surely it'd have been detonated in the passenger area? Possibly in one of the toilets, or against a side window?

I might have mis-read but I thought the claim was that it was in a/the storage area/hold.

EDIT:

It was originally reported that the bomb had been stored in the plane's cargo compartment.

It was claimed preliminary conclusions were that the bomb could have been laid under the passenger seat by the window.

 

[Energize]

While I still await the actual official investigations report on whether there actually were explosives involved in this crash or not; would easy to manufacture explosives like TNT be practical to use in a coke can bomb?

 

[Tefal]

While I still await the actual official investigations report on whether there actually were explosives involved in this crash or not; would easy to manufacture explosives like TNT be practical to use in a coke can bomb?

its basically a hand grenade.