Singapore Grand Prix 2013, Marina Bay - Race 13/19

Orch said:
I just don't see why in those circumstances people aren't allowed responsibility for themselves. Mark knew what he was doing, he clearly knows the risks . . just let him get on with it!
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Your theory is ridiculous.

So what you're saying is if Webber had stopped, done a three point turn midway through the race and then driven around the track the wrong way it's acceptable because "he knew the risks"?

Geeze. Glad you're not one of the Stewards.
 
smr said:
1. Sounds just like Lewis minus 4.
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Or Button post Brawn.

smr said:
Your theory is ridiculous.

So what you're saying is if Webber had stopped, done a three point turn midway through the race and then driven around the track the wrong way it's acceptable because "he knew the risks"?

Geeze. Glad you're not one of the Stewards.
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You missed out the bit where Webber singles out the women and children in the crowd and shoots them with an Uzi shouting "**** YEAH F1!!".
 
Webber knew the risks, however what if Hamilton crashed avoiding him, what if Rosberg was one inch further over and killed him, even if Rosberg wasn't hurt that isn't going to be a nice day out for Rosberg. Rosberg or Hamilton could have piled directly into the back of the car. While drivers should pay attention the rule EVERYONE always sticks by is no one should be on the track, they are going slower but waving at fans so assuming all drivers will have full attention on the track itself at all times on a parade lap basically is daft in and of itself.

Mark put his life in danger, that's his choice, but it's also strictly against the rules to go on the track and as such he was punished so I can't see the issue with punishment. THe issue is he was putting other people at risk which he absolutely isn't entitled to do. Alonso was pretty stupid about it. he could have pulled WAY off the track to stop and let him on but stopped in the stupidest place possible maybe on the entire track.
 
MooMoo444 said:
Your example implies an F1 car is designed for someone to sit on the side of it.
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Who said anything about design? on the other hand you're saying that the Mansell\Senna lift was bad.

In MotoGp if a rider stops to celebrate and his bikes stops someone will put his foot bar against his a tow him till he get it going
and no it wasn't designed to do that but it works. Stop being a nanny.

smr said:
1. Sounds just like Lewis minus 4.
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Is that your dig for the week? aaarrr never mind
 
Orch said:
He [MSc] was much more liked and respected the second time around.
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Indeed.
But what if he returned and immediately started winning many races and dominating...would he still have been liked? He was getting spanked pretty badly by N.Rosberg, year on year and it was like watching an old dog being repeatedly put out to do battle with younger stronger dogs...and losing every time.

The main problem that Vettel has, is that many F1 fans feel that he hasnt done the grunt work in a lower team. He was with Torro Rosso for 2 years (was it?) and then straight into one of the best teams. Then within 1 year, it became the best team.

With MSc. He joined Bennetton in 1991. He was not in the best car until 1994. He helped develop that Bennetton.
In 1996, he did a complete reset and switched to a poorly performing Ferrari. For a few years he struggled and raced hard to get some decent results BEFORE, Ferrari produced a brilliant car with which he broke many records.

Vettel didnt do nearly as much grunt work that MSc did.

Oh and MSc was not Universally liked. He had his share of booboys.
 
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think there will be lots of reasons why vettel is being boo'd, theres been a gradual build up to this point where he is being consistently boo'd. I think how you win, in the minds of many viewers is as important as winning itself, and the way vettels done it has rubbed people the wrong way. A lot of it is probably misplaced and should be directed at the team etc if you think he has had it to easy with the fastest car because red bull have more resources or whatever. And i guess some people just see vettel as the manifestation of everything wrong with f1 right now, a dominant car cruising to the lights not being challenged whilst other drivers behind suffer because of tyres etc, your average person isnt interested in disecting the reasons for it, they just see something they dont like and vocalise it.

one thing thats interesting is whilst vettel's stock amongst many fans seems to be stagnating, or going down, especially after multi 21, his opponents, alonso, hamilton and kimi, have all seen their repuations improve as they continue to put in fighting performances and seemingly dragging less competitive cars into good positions. Red bull dont really have any choice to continue though, it would be mad to expect them to slacken off just becuase the rest cant keep up, but the sport would do well to try and at least convince the fans, that the playing field is at least a little bit level, then maybe it would seem a bit less one sided, and red bull are quite guilty of not taking part in the RRA etc so that hasnt helped. I can sum up red bulls current domination in a few words which is, all stats and no glory.

just out of interest does valentino rossi or sebastian loeb get boo'd as both of them were dominant in their sports? i'm just interested as i dont beleive vettel being boo'd is simply about him winning I think their is a lot fo reasons for it.
 
smr's obsession with LH is madness.

When ever someone slates any driver on the grid you bring it back to Lewis Hamilton. Done it a number of times in this thread alone.

Why have you got such a obsession with hating LH?
 
drunkenmaster said:
Webber knew the risks, however what if Hamilton crashed avoiding him, what if Rosberg was one inch further over and killed him, even if Rosberg wasn't hurt that isn't going to be a nice day out for Rosberg. Rosberg or Hamilton could have piled directly into the back of the car. While drivers should pay attention the rule EVERYONE always sticks by is no one should be on the track, they are going slower but waving at fans so assuming all drivers will have full attention on the track itself at all times on a parade lap basically is daft in and of itself.

Mark put his life in danger, that's his choice, but it's also strictly against the rules to go on the track and as such he was punished so I can't see the issue with punishment. THe issue is he was putting other people at risk which he absolutely isn't entitled to do. Alonso was pretty stupid about it. he could have pulled WAY off the track to stop and let him on but stopped in the stupidest place possible maybe on the entire track.
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Not only his life, but other drivers as well. We all know, and in some cases, seen what happens when an f1 car hits someone and what happens to the driver, Tom Pryce. :(
 
Don't know why people are bringing out the multi-21 thing as an excuse to hate Vettel? Would Massa have been hated if he had ignored the team order to let Alonso through. Fact of the matter is that Vettel was quicker than Webber and made the pass easily... I'm pretty sure there has been a couple of times when Webber has got close to the back of Vettel and been told to hold back, he has tried to find a way past but has simply not been quick enough to push Seb.

FYI I dislike Vettel purely because he is so bloody good and doesn't give a chance to the drivers I follow.
 
rubberduck said:
Don't know why people are bringing out the multi-21 thing as an excuse to hate Vettel? Would Massa have been hated if he had ignored the team order to let Alonso through. Fact of the matter is that Vettel was quicker than Webber and made the pass easily... I'm pretty sure there has been a couple of times when Webber has got close to the back of Vettel and been told to hold back, he has tried to find a way past but has simply not been quick enough to push Seb.

FYI I dislike Vettel purely because he is so bloody good and doesn't give a chance to the drivers I follow.
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Lol post.
 
Rybo89 said:
smr's obsession with LH is madness.

When ever someone slates any driver on the grid you bring it back to Lewis Hamilton. Done it a number of times in this thread alone.

Why have you got such a obsession with hating LH?
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smr is a psychologist's dream :D

He has said everything at least 10 times now so he has go to make up new stuff.
 
Zuban said:
think there will be lots of reasons why vettel is being boo'd, theres been a gradual build up to this point where he is being consistently boo'd. I think how you win, in the minds of many viewers is as important as winning itself, and the way vettels done it has rubbed people the wrong way. A lot of it is probably misplaced and should be directed at the team etc if you think he has had it to easy with the fastest car because red bull have more resources or whatever. And i guess some people just see vettel as the manifestation of everything wrong with f1 right now, a dominant car cruising to the lights not being challenged whilst other drivers behind suffer because of tyres etc, your average person isnt interested in disecting the reasons for it, they just see something they dont like and vocalise it.

one thing thats interesting is whilst vettel's stock amongst many fans seems to be stagnating, or going down, especially after multi 21, his opponents, alonso, hamilton and kimi, have all seen their repuations improve as they continue to put in fighting performances and seemingly dragging less competitive cars into good positions. Red bull dont really have any choice to continue though, it would be mad to expect them to slacken off just becuase the rest cant keep up, but the sport would do well to try and at least convince the fans, that the playing field is at least a little bit level, then maybe it would seem a bit less one sided, and red bull are quite guilty of not taking part in the RRA etc so that hasnt helped. I can sum up red bulls current domination in a few words which is, all stats and no glory.

just out of interest does valentino rossi or sebastian loeb get boo'd as both of them were dominant in their sports? i'm just interested as i dont beleive vettel being boo'd is simply about him winning I think their is a lot fo reasons for it.
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I can speak about Valentino Rossi. The answer is a resounding no. Rossi is not boo'd and is loved by many. I think I could go as far as saying a majority in fact. Why? He is a joyful character both on and off the track. He is gracious in defeat and a true sportsman. He loves and enjoys his racing and you never hear him give excuses. He is loved and people want to see him win despite him winning multiple world championships working up from the bottom.

Valentino Rossi would be the complete contrast of someone like Casey Stoner. Stoner had a shed load of haters. it was just as passionate as the hate for Vettel. They share some similarities. With Stoner, he came across as ungrateful and always complaining. Many nicknamed him Casey Moaner. He was always blaming everything but himself when something did not go to plan or worse, when he was flat out beaten. There was/is no denying he is one of the fastest motogp riders ever. Yet the way he won...again...a lot of the time was with the fastest bike in terms of power and his smaller size, and often from the front with less over taking.

Fans want to see racing. We want to see close races. Rossi won a lot of races from coming through from poor quali spots. Stoner won from the front a lot.

I think the boredom of seeing domination from certain teams at certain periods for fans, would be forgiven if the driver/rider was/is a great character. Vettel...you could write a book on the reasons not to like him. Give me a list of good things about him. He can drive an F1 car fast. For some this is enough. The problem is...it also happens to be the best car he has inherited through a fairly minimal time in top flight motor racing.
 
Orch said:
Yeh that's a fair comparison, well done.
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I was making the point that it isn't acceptable for the driver's to do whatever they want, risk things and let them get on with it.

Your ridiculous stance on the penalty is as ridiculous of the notion I made up.

Let's say hypothetically Lewis had been looking down at his steering wheel to change a setting, went slightly wide as a result and collected Webber, killed or seriously injured him?

Do you really think the FIA wants to see that sort of thing again? Do you think they'd enjoy all the legal proceedings that would come their way?

Lewis himself said he had to swerve out of the way to avoid it. Infact have we got an onboard of Lewis regarding the corner?
 
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