Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

My suspicion is that NG thought about the low chance of someone on holiday using zero energy and didn't want to give them money for nothing.
As such they left the whole system open to abuse.

I still don't think the overall impact will be high, but suspect it will be fixed for next year.
If they simply capped the 3 hour in day adjustment to a more sensible value then it would stop this.
Could be many things, average usage for that meter per hour over last 14 days or something seems sensible.
Then make the payment a combo of, payment for negligible (like < 0.1kwh) or zero actual grid usage in session, plus capped adjustment for 3 hour window, plus reduction in usage for those that normally have usage in the window.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Yes i told my mate it was wrong...... i cant force him to change it, same as i cant stop you guys gaming the system.

Thats right they say "dont use energy in the window" not switch energy from cheap windows to peak windows..... i mean the window was 1 hr...who uses 48kw's in 1 hour???? surely someone must think other than me, that its morally wrong???

Not sure why your hung up on the cheap window thing though. Thats basically irrelevant.

Yes its a silly system, better everyone does it so they are forced to fix it.

Octopus for example think its wrong that people who turn everything thing off and go to work get less than someone who doesn't simply because the in day adjustment will see lower energy usage and penalise them. I tend to agree.

 

[Welshman]

Not sure why your hung up on the cheap window thing though. Thats basically irrelevant.

Yes its a silly system, better everyone does it so they are forced to fix it.

Octopus for example think its wrong that people who turn everything thing off and go to work get less than someone who doesn't simply because the in day adjustment will see lower energy usage and penalise them. I tend to agree.

no the cheap window is irrelevant, if it was then it wouldnt be available.......thats the window thats used for charging the car, charge batteries, use underfloor heating......its there so people get charged less for doing those things. So its very relevant.

Switching those things from that cheap window, to the peak window and upping your average is morally wrong. The idea is to move energy AWAY from the peak times and the 1hr window, not ADD to it.

 

[1pudding1]

You're choosing to define that -4 to -1hrs window as a peak window. Well, the NG and Octopus dont define it as such, hence why they pay and incentivise people to use it and upping the average use in those 3 hrs is fine and better according to them, otherwise they would discourage it not encourage it. Their peak window is the one that counts, not your definition, and that is the one where they ask you to not use anything.

 

[94JDH]

no - using electric underfloor heating at peak rates is not what one does, one uses gas, as one already stated and if not gas then OFF PEAK cheap rate electric....thats what you dont get. He actually admitted it himself

I normally use underfloor heating in the 4 hour Go window and moved it to 4am to 8am, why wouldn't I if I'm getting paid for it - I'm still using the same amount of electric.
If if wasn't for the saving sessions you'd probably insist everyone who has batteries is gaming the Octopus Go tariff by taking advantage of the cheap rates to not pay for the peak ones.
And for reference, you do know the cost of heating for the same period using a 32kW system boiler in my house is then?

 

[Welshman]

You're choosing to define that -4 to -1hrs window as a peak window. Well, the NG and Octopus dont define it as such, hence why they pay and incentivise people to use it and upping the average use in those 3 hrs is fine and better according to them, otherwise they would discourage it not encourage it. Their peak window is the one that counts, not your definition, and that is the one where they ask you to not use anything.

do we not pay peak rates in those windows then???? funny that, because i do....if octopus dont define it as such, why do i pay it during those times??

 

[Welshman]

I normally use underfloor heating in the 4 hour Go window and moved it to 4am to 8am, why wouldn't I if I'm getting paid for it - I'm still using the same amount of electric.
If if wasn't for the saving sessions you'd probably insist everyone who has batteries is gaming the Octopus Go tariff by taking advantage of the cheap rates to not pay for the peak ones.
And for reference, you do know the cost of heating for the same period using a 32kW system boiler in my house is then?

The GO tariff has been redefined to include battery charging, as an EV is a big battery....... i have a right to my opinion, the same as you have a right to yours, your giving your opinion, im giving mine.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

no the cheap window is irrelevant, if it was then it wouldnt be available.......thats the window thats used for charging the car, charge batteries, use underfloor heating......its there so people get charged less for doing those things. So its very relevant.

Switching those things from that cheap window, to the peak window and upping your average is morally wrong. The idea is to move energy AWAY from the peak times and the 1hr window, not ADD to it.

Ooof

Go is for EVs. Whilst Octopus have been open(ish) to it being used for other things its not for underfloor heating, charging batteries at all
Whilst Go is marketed as an economy 7 tariff, its not a generic economy 7 tariff

Its a choice to go onto Go, and how you organise your usage, and the fact you pay more for units outside the cheap window.

What matters is where the energy comes from, the pricing is irrelevant.
Seeing as the UK has and continues to burn gas to make our energy then its burning gas at 1am or 8am to make the units I would have used. So its irrelevant on timing.
Once grid usage gets to having zero fossils at some times then 100% it would matter.

I'm doing more than my bit, I am always zero from grid during saving sessions, no matter the time I will be zero.

All I did on the last big session was usage shift what I would have done anyway. I also used arguably a more efficient heating method a fan heater to heat the area upstairs directly by my office rather than run the GFCH. The GFCH would have 100% used more gas than the limited amount that would have been burned at a power station to provide the 4kwh or so my fan heater would have used. For comparison from cold my heating will run for around an hour, on and off but use from 12-18kwh or so from my testing.

My only minor error, full battery had a small amount of charge left the next day at 0:30am and as such I probably pulled in 1kwh more that day than needed, but of course it was 1kwh less the next.

So I have zero conscience as I have probably used less fossil fuels than had I of just used the GFCH rather than the fan heater.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[jpaul]

Well, the NG and Octopus dont define it as such,

did subsequently see that octopus documentation does misrepresent original elexon baselining motivation LOL
The Unadjusted Baseline Values create a profile shape for a day based on previous days’ data, but will not account fully for variations in factors such as weather and temperature. For this reason, In Day Adjustments are used to provide an up or down lift, ensuring the values used in Settlement calculations are better representative of conditions on the day.

 

[john_smith]

do we not pay peak rates in those windows then???? funny that, because i do....if octopus dont define it as such, why do i pay it during those times??

Some people will be on eco7, some people will be on a flat rate. Are they gaming the system if they move their usage or is it only people specifically on Go that you're upset with?

 

[Welshman]

Ooof

Go is for EVs. Whilst Octopus have been open(ish) to it being used for other things its not for underfloor heating, charging batteries at all
Whilst Go is marketed as an economy 7 tariff, its not a generic economy 7 tariff

Its a choice to go onto Go, and how you organise your usage, and the fact you pay more for units outside the cheap window.

What matters is where the energy comes from, the pricing is irrelevant.
Seeing as the UK has and continues to burn gas to make our energy then its burning gas at 1am or 8am to make the units I would have used. So its irrelevant on timing.
Once grid usage gets to having zero fossils at some times then 100% it would matter.

I'm doing more than my bit, I am always zero from grid during saving sessions, no matter the time I will be zero.

All I did on the last big session was usage shift what I would have done anyway. I also used arguably a more efficient heating method a fan heater to heat the area upstairs directly by my office rather than run the GFCH. The GFCH would have 100% used more gas than the limited amount that would have been burned at a power station to provide the 4kwh or so my fan heater would have used. For comparison from cold my heating will run for around an hour, on and off but use from 12-18kwh or so from my testing.

My only minor error, full battery had a small amount of charge left the next day at 0:30am and as such I probably pulled in 1kwh more that day than needed, but of course it was 1kwh less the next.

So I have zero conscience as I have probably used less fossil fuels than had I of just used the GFCH rather than the fan heater.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

you usage shifted into a window that you knew would make you money and used more energy than you would normally use.....as you stated above your usage is ZERO in the window, that means you shouldnt make any money.

My usage was less than .5kwh in virtually every window...what i didnt do is switch my gas heating off and put my electric fire on to make money.

Ive had my say.....you do you and i'll do me, i know who's conscience is cleaner.

Peace Out

 

[john_smith]

*snip*

Posts full of knowledge

*snip*

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Fully agree.

 

[Welshman]

Some people will be on eco7, some people will be on a flat rate. Are they gaming the system if they move their usage or is it only people specifically on Go that you're upset with?

did i say anything about people on GO...there are other tariifs that offer cheap rates.

 

[john_smith]

did i say anything about people on GO...there are other tariifs that offer cheap rates.

To be fair, you've said lots of things. Ha

 

[Welshman]

To be fair, you've said lots of things. Ha

i'm not the only one....

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

you usage shifted into a window that you knew would make you money and used more energy than you would normally use.....as you stated above your usage is ZERO in the window, that means you shouldnt make any money.

My usage was less than .5kwh in virtually every window...what i didnt do is switch my gas heating off and put my electric fire on to make money.

Ive had my say.....you do you and i'll do me, i know who's conscience is cleaner.

Peace Out

NO.

Read again, I mentioned the session window, the bit they are trying to get demand reduced in, not the in day adjustment window. Every session so far my usage has been zero, I would adjust my usage to ensure I was zero then. Even if it means I use grid some other time.

I didn't use more energy, as I said, I probably in reality used a chunk less, only my office and part of upstairs close to it was warm. Downstairs didn't get heated at all until that evening

As I said my conscience is clear, 100%. I didn't use ANY EXTRA at all, zero, zilch.

Are you zero from grid during every savings session, or are you consuming during any of them?

Some people will be on eco7, some people will be on a flat rate. Are they gaming the system if they move their usage or is it only people specifically on Go that you're upset with?

Wonder if he goes round telling people off for not doing their washing at 8am when grid usage is low rather than 5pm when its high.
Suspect not.

 

[Welshman]

Wonder if he goes round telling people off for not doing their washing at 8am when grid usage is low rather than 5pm when its high.
Suspect not.

no i dont, because they dont brag about it on a public forum for everyone to see..... if you dont want picking up on the immorality of the usage, then dont brag about it. Pretty simple really

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

no i dont, because they dont brag about it on a public forum for everyone to see..... if you dont want picking up on the immorality of the usage, then dont brag about it. Pretty simple really

Lol Im trying to to fall out here, but immorality, really?

There is Zero issue with the morality of when I use my electricity.
I choose when I use it. I pay for it.
If there was a point where I could affect the amount that came from fossil fuels then that would be the point when morality would kick in. Produced by gas at 1am or 7am is no different.

So in your world, the fact I put the tumble drier on at 12 noon was immoral since that day was a savings session day and the window was 12am-3pm.
The next day when it went on at 12 noon was fine since it wasn't a savings session window.
Are you sure that is your position? Think about it, because that is effectively your argument.

 

[john_smith]

So in your world, the fact I put the tumble drier on at 12 noon was immoral since that day was a savings session day and the window was 12am-3pm.
The next day when it went on at 12 noon was fine since it wasn't a savings session window.
Are you sure that is your position? Think about it, because that is effectively your argument.

Energy Karen would be happier if people used energy in a window after the session rather than before it. Morally that would be right for them.

 

[94JDH]

Ooof

Go is for EVs. Whilst Octopus have been open(ish) to it being used for other things its not for underfloor heating, charging batteries at all
Whilst Go is marketed as an economy 7 tariff, its not a generic economy 7 tariff

Its a choice to go onto Go, and how you organise your usage, and the fact you pay more for units outside the cheap window.

What matters is where the energy comes from, the pricing is irrelevant.
Seeing as the UK has and continues to burn gas to make our energy then its burning gas at 1am or 8am to make the units I would have used. So its irrelevant on timing.
Once grid usage gets to having zero fossils at some times then 100% it would matter.

I'm doing more than my bit, I am always zero from grid during saving sessions, no matter the time I will be zero.

All I did on the last big session was usage shift what I would have done anyway. I also used arguably a more efficient heating method a fan heater to heat the area upstairs directly by my office rather than run the GFCH. The GFCH would have 100% used more gas than the limited amount that would have been burned at a power station to provide the 4kwh or so my fan heater would have used. For comparison from cold my heating will run for around an hour, on and off but use from 12-18kwh or so from my testing.

My only minor error, full battery had a small amount of charge left the next day at 0:30am and as such I probably pulled in 1kwh more that day than needed, but of course it was 1kwh less the next.

So I have zero conscience as I have probably used less fossil fuels than had I of just used the GFCH rather than the fan heater.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Correct it's for EV owners/users and also provides the additional benefit of use for that period.
That isn't an opinion its factual.