Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Someone has posted on here before about panels on sheds I don't recall the hate then, just quite a few people wanting details of the inverter, batteries etc (it was a standalone setup)

We have people here (ronski and bugone) who have self fitted panels onto rooves, a flat roof is not much better than a shed in my experience if its not in good condition. Both of them I would suggest are likely to have done a decent inspection first I am sure but if they specifically followed the same level of screw penetration in to beams as a "proper" installer only they know.
Saying that, have a look on youtube into what some installers will do and leave. Like missing when drilling through the roof tiles and securing in effect in air...

Its actually my biggest concern with solar, that a poor install could become lethal. As a homeowner you somewhat "safe" if you have used a reputable installer. DIY though and its always possible someone could come after you for a negligent and lethal install.

Sheds (like flat rooves) are more susceptible to rot than a normal roof. As long as the shed is sound its probably got less chance of being an issue than a house, due to height.
I would personally after having watched some videos go inbuilt next time, if that was my main roof or a shed etc. They just use gaskets between the panels and trims etc that give redundancy to ingress, sure they are a little more expensive, but look nice.
For a shed they would actually IMO make the shed less likely to try to have the roof lifted off due to the added weight and nothing for the wind to directly try to get under.

 

[Welshman]

Someone has posted on here before about panels on sheds I don't recall the hate then, just quite a few people wanting details of the inverter, batteries etc (it was a standalone setup)

We have people here (ronski and bugone) who have self fitted panels onto rooves, a flat roof is not much better than a shed in my experience if its not in good condition. Both of them I would suggest are likely to have done a decent inspection first I am sure but if they specifically followed the same level of screw penetration in to beams as a "proper" installer only they know.
Saying that, have a look on youtube into what some installers will do and leave. Like missing when drilling through the roof tiles and securing in effect in air...

Its actually my biggest concern with solar, that a poor install could become lethal. As a homeowner you somewhat "safe" if you have used a reputable installer. DIY though and its always possible someone could come after you for a negligent and lethal install.

Sheds (like flat rooves) are more susceptible to rot than a normal roof. As long as the shed is sound its probably got less chance of being an issue than a house, due to height.
I would personally after having watched some videos go inbuilt next time, if that was my main roof or a shed etc. They just use gaskets between the panels and trims etc that give redundancy to ingress, sure they are a little more expensive, but look nice.
For a shed they would actually IMO make the shed less likely to try to have the roof lifted off due to the added weight and nothing for the wind to directly try to get under.

Yeh it funny how some people are....already had solar panels on my shed roof for over 2yrs now and not a single issue, even in last years 50mph+ storms. And i installed them too.....

 

[200sols]

For a shed they would actually IMO make the shed less likely to try to have the roof lifted off due to the added weight and nothing for the wind to directly try to get under.

I agree inbuilt would have less issues on a shed. Probably makes more sense.

As a homeowner you somewhat "safe" if you have used a reputable installer. DIY though and its always possible someone could come after you for a negligent and lethal install.

Amazing how the suggestion of calculation of proper loads got such a reaction though. Nothing wrong with DIY, just cover yourself.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

I've got 3 now on my shed roof. Two have been on there since July last year, and I've just added another. It's a fairly substantial structure, and they're screwed into the roof. They're angled facing down to any strong winds and the facing edge is only a few mm above the roof (and screwed in) so not got any issues or concerns with strong winds.

I doubt the shed will last the lifetime of the panels though. So it's something a lot more suitable to a diyer than a professional installation.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I agree inbuilt would have less issues on a shed. Probably makes more sense.


Amazing how the suggestion of calculation of proper loads got such a reaction though. Nothing wrong with DIY, just cover yourself.

To be honest I sit somewhere between you and welshman here.
I cannot imagine anyone getting proper loads done for solar on a shed. Just like they wouldn't for a carport, or even the shed itself.
Do I believe shed companies ensure that they sheds are fit for purpose in 80mph winds. No way on the face of this earth when you often see flawed bits of wood, missed nail gun firing etc.

But you would need to add more bracing and support in a shed with solar on if you want to be belt and braces safe IMO.
I would probably stick a 75mm fence post in each corner (unless it was built to that level to start with) and then use CLS diagonally between them, and also reinforce the roof into that structure.

My experience with sheds, greehouses etc comes from our allotment where you see a massive difference between those who simply wack up a prebuilt with supplied nails, those who use a prebuilt but add some extra reinforcing and those who self build with the exposure and wind in mind

 

[Hawk Tuah]

use CLS diagonally between them

My corners, roof beams and roof structure were already pretty thick, but that's precisely what I've done, just to prevent any potential wind sheer folding the structure.

 

[Welshman]

To be honest I sit somewhere between you and welshman here.
I cannot imagine anyone getting proper loads done for solar on a shed. Just like they wouldn't for a carport, or even the shed itself.
Do I believe shed companies ensure that they sheds are fit for purpose in 80mph winds. No way on the face of this earth when you often see flawed bits of wood, missed nail gun firing etc.

But you would need to add more bracing and support in a shed with solar on if you want to be belt and braces safe IMO.
I would probably stick a 75mm fence post in each corner (unless it was built to that level to start with) and then use CLS diagonally between them, and also reinforce the roof into that structure.

My experience with sheds, greehouses etc comes from our allotment where you see a massive difference between those who simply wack up a prebuilt with supplied nails, those who use a prebuilt but add some extra reinforcing and those who self build with the exposure and wind in mind

I was accused by my building surveyour friend last year of over engineering my greenhouse when i built it...... so i can attest that my shed structure is pretty much up to standard and the roof will be re-built over and above what a normal shed will be built. The internal structure leading upto the roof is currently built with 4x2 structural timbers, bolted to a concrete slab and the roof is currently 5x2 strutural timbers, but orientated in the wrong driection for solar as its pitched east to west (some one say thats ideal). But east side has 3 large trees stopping the sun in the morning and the west side has 3 large trees stopping the sun after 6pm....so rebuilding the roof and having it as a skillion on one plain due south. will be the best for 10am to 6pm production.

And its only 4 panels.

But hey, this thread is about solar and battery and not the structural engineering and windloads of sheds.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I was accused by my building surveyour friend last year of over engineering my greenhouse when i built it...... so i can attest that my shed structure is pretty much up to standard and the roof will be re-built over and above what a normal shed will be built. The internal structure leading upto the roof is currently built with 4x2 structural timbers, bolted to a concrete slab and the roof is currently 5x2 strutural timbers, but orientated in the wrong driection for solar as its pitched east to west (some one say thats ideal). But east side has 3 large trees stopping the sun in the morning and the west side has 3 large trees stopping the sun after 6pm....so rebuilding the roof and having it as a skillion on one plain due south. will be the best for 10am to 6pm production.

And its only 4 panels.

But hey, this thread is about solar and battery and not the structural engineering and windloads of sheds.

Hehe I know about over engineering, you should see my allotment greenhouse

Its worth talking about since you never know when someone will stumble along and think adding 4 panels to a £199 diy shop bargain shed is the way to go...

 

[alphaomega16]

Finally got some measurements

Home Width 20ft, 6.09 Meters
Home Length 21.3ft, 6.5 Meters
Loft floor to height of roof 9.84ft, 3 Meters

Dad got someone to measure but for some reason only done from bottom to top of inside roof, will go ahead with the tape measure to tennis ball over weekend to get another reading.

Also regarding the not roof of house additions for those that run out of space is there any particular reason you cannot add bits to the sides of the panels like bird proofing but more solid so not effected by wind?

 

[Welshman]

Finally got some measurements

Home Width 20ft, 6.09 Meters
Home Length 21.3ft, 6.5 Meters
Loft floor to height of roof 9.84ft, 3 Meters

Dad got someone to measure but for some reason only done from bottom to top of inside roof, will go ahead with the tape measure to tennis ball over weekend to get another reading.

Also regarding the not roof of house additions for those that run out of space is there any particular reason you cannot add bits to the sides of the panels like bird proofing but more solid so not effected by wind?

You have to ensure the panels are fitted within the regulations. If you have qualified fitters, then they will only do what is permitted. If i had used the full size of my roof, i could have fitted 10panels…but to be within regulations i could only have 8 fitted.

 

[Ron-ski]

It's not about wind going under the panels so much, but wind currents that cause low pressure above the panels, so the panels can be sucked off the roof, this is more likely near the edges of the roof.

So called professionals often cut corners, install too close to the edge, I've even seen panels over hanging the hip of a roof near us. Just because they are qualified doesn't mean they'll install them inline with regulations.

 

[Peteronthesouthcoast]

what of the shed is already bolted to the ground during installation and the roof is built with proper storm brackets to ensure its fully rigid??....we aint talking a B&Q special her

what of the shed is already bolted to the ground during installation and the roof is built with proper storm brackets to ensure its fully rigid??....we aint talking a B&Q special here

 

[Welshman]

Not a clue why my posts have been quoted above…..

 

[Peteronthesouthcoast]

One always assumes that things are fine until proved otherwise.

I was foolish enough to venture outside during the storm of 1987. I lost part of my roof and conditions were terrible. The wind was really strong and filled with sea spray although I lived 130 yards from the shore.

Maybe the wind was 100mph at its peak. I did not venture out until 5am when the wind was dropping. It was still over 60mph. (I knew this from being on a motorcycle at 60mph when young). A jumbo jet has a max take off weight of 412 tommes with 511 square metres of wing. Take off speed is around 180mph. By my calculations each 1.2 square metres of wing is capable of lifting 1 tonne. Admitedly wings are designed to do this and solar panels are not. We are also (hopefull) not talking about wind speeds anywhere near 180mph.

I was chatting to a bloke a while ago who had spent 6 months in Antigua installing cradles for big yachts on dry land. The cradles are purpose made (I think it was 4 per boat) to fit the contours of the yachts exactly with very heavy duty steel. They are then sunk into a base of up to 1.25 metres of solid concrete. This is the only way to get insurance for yachts during the hurricane season if left in Antigua.

A light shed bolted to the ground seems a reasonable bet. A House with foundations and a heavy roof also seems a reasonable bet. Personally I would worry about making a shed stronger, and be more inclined to mount solar panels on a purpose built steel frame, or a Sarah Beeney approach.

 

[Peteronthesouthcoast]

Not a clue why my posts have been quoted above…..

sorry hit the wrong button

 

[Welshman]

sorry hit the wrong button

Well talk about going off on a tangent with the above post lol…..

also my man cave, not shed is 4mtrs x 3mtrs, 100mm thick insulation to the walls, anchor bolted into concrete. Like i said, its not a B&Q shop sale special…..its been standing 10yrs now and for the last 3 have had two panels already on the roof, so adding two more isnt an issue…..

 

[Freefaller]

Hi All, taking the plunge into solar PV system myself, i had a question.

I have two system options, the biggest difference from my perspective is that FOX ESS is a 5KWH Output capacity while GivEnergy is only 3.6KWH output capacity.

Which setup would you recommend? (Cost for both is within budget and not much difference)

Panels
Tiger Neo N-type 54HL4-B 400-420 Watt All Black
5.04
12 x JKM420N-54HL4-B
420 Watt panels

Option 1 :
Hybrid Inverter, GivEnergy, GIV-HY5.0, 5.000 kW of Total Inverter Power
Battery, Giv-Bat9.5, 9.5kWh of Storage

Option 2 :
Inverter, Fox Ess AIO-H1-5.0, 5 kW Total Inverter Rating
Battery Fox Ess 3 x HV2600, 7.8 kWh Total Battery Storage

I'd go for option 1

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

So my ever ongoing battery saga...
This weeks update after chasing again this afternoon.

Provisional day proposed for BMS replacement. Will go back and say yes but its towards the end of the month.

More interestingly in their checks they have identified another system with the same issue, out of "a few". They are apparently short staffed this week so doesn't sound like they have been able to check many and of course depending how the system is working it can be far less or more obvious on a day to day basis.*
Which is what I feared, meaning to my mind is more likely a significant manufacturer issue as opposed to a one off local one.
This SOLAX system is relatively new to the market. (in its current form even if not for all aspects)

Its starting to look to me like this is going to get nasty which is what I feared.
SOLAX support seems to be about as effective as the proverbial chocolate teapot. They have not come back to my installer with any more comment since the installer went back to say they had completed the tests that SOLAX advised they should and that had failed to provide any resolution.

* Unless the system is deep discharged (like to 40% SOC or below) then the system seems to be roughly correct in regards how much its going to need to fully charge. Eg 80% will have a reasonable charge curve, and whilst it will demonstrate the problem its likely only the last 4-5% will jump suddenly and not the last 20%+ that it will show from a deep discharge.

I am going to reply that we will change the BMS and baring some useful advice from SOLAX triggering some other action, and assuming the BMS change will not fix the issue, then I will be triggering a formal complaint and probably a letter before action at the end of June.

 

[alphaomega16]

whelp, couldn't get anything over roof, too tall for me to get anything over. Think I might E-Mail the company I was going to get the solar with and say if they are 100% sure that what they after eyeballng roof length wise will fit when they go to fit it and be within regulation then I will go ahead with warning that if it does not I am going to be scrapping the whole lot. They got the width of home but after two visits still couldn't be bothered with getting full roof measurements.

I rounded down the length of house not including overrun just wall to wall and long measure stick from top of roof to loft floor (Flooring on top of beams)

Spoiler: Length of House /2

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Think I might E-Mail the company I was going to get the solar with and say if they are 100% sure that what they after eyeballng roof length wise will fit when they go to fit it and be within regulation then I will go ahead with warning that if it does not I am going to be scrapping the whole lot.

Is that really how you plan to communicate with a company you're about to employ?