**Summer Transfer Thread: News, Rumours and Speculation**
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Caporegime
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I think Spurs will definitely be one of the top clubs outside of the top 4. Can't see them breaking into the 4 yet though.
Caporegime
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They do have a lot of similar quality players in most positions so could replace like for like.
And if any of those players get injured who would replace them? As far as Liverpool are concerned we don't have anyone even remotely close to Torres and Gerrard who could replace them.
Chelsea:
Cech, Cole, Carvalho, Terry, Bosingwa, Cole, Lampard, Essien, Deco, Drogba, Anelka
and
Turnbull, Belletti, Ferreira, Ivanovic, Alex, Ballack, Zhirkov, Mikel, Malouda, Shevchenko, Kalou
Arsenal:
Almunia, Sagna, Clichy, Gallas, Vermaelen, Nasri, Arshavin, Fabregas, Denilson, van Persie, Eduardo
and
Fabianski, Gibbs, Eboue, Senderos, Djourou, Walcott, Diaby, Rosicky, Diaby, Bentdner, Vela
Are better by far anyway.
Cech, Cole, Carvalho, Terry, Bosingwa, Cole, Lampard, Essien, Deco, Drogba, Anelka
and
Turnbull, Belletti, Ferreira, Ivanovic, Alex, Ballack, Zhirkov, Mikel, Malouda, Shevchenko, Kalou
Arsenal:
Almunia, Sagna, Clichy, Gallas, Vermaelen, Nasri, Arshavin, Fabregas, Denilson, van Persie, Eduardo
and
Fabianski, Gibbs, Eboue, Senderos, Djourou, Walcott, Diaby, Rosicky, Diaby, Bentdner, Vela
Are better by far anyway.
And the like of Boateng, O'Hara, Hutton, Jenas, Dawson, Cudicini etc. aren't good enough to keep a team in the top even if they ever get there in the first place.
Anyway how could you ever have anyone close to Gerrard or Torres' ability sitting on the bench? Both are arguably in the top 5-6 players in the world, the reason Spurs have the likes of Jenas, Hutton etc. on the bench is because they can't get in any top6 first team.
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True. The problem is that minus a couple of them, none would get anywhere near the first 11 of the top 4.
Spurs' first 11 is still quite a way off the top 4's and other than their back-up strikers (who could come in very useful for all of the top 4), none of their 'reserves' are as good as the top 4's either.
That's to be expected though. The reason why they're so special is because they can't just be replaced.
Palacios, Lennon, Defoe, Modric I'd argue would all get in at least 2 of the top 4 teams starting 11. If King was fit he would too, Woodgate is debatable but he makes a strong claim.
Top 5-6 would be deemed a successful season, but I don't see why we can't aim higher; doesn't mean we'll get there.
Palacios, Lennon, Defoe, Modric I'd argue would all get in at least 2 of the top 4 teams starting 11. If King was fit he would too, Woodgate is debatable but he makes a strong claim.
Top 5-6 would be deemed a successful season, but I don't see why we can't aim higher; doesn't mean we'll get there.
I don't agree but that's not relevant anyway. You've highlighted where Spurs are lacking yourself; even if you believe that those players would get into 2 or the top 4's sides, none would get into all of them (or be certain starters anyway). Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal all have players that would get into every side in the league and on top of that have several other players that would get into nearly every other side in the league (including the other top 4 sides).
For what it's worth, I do think Modric would improve all of the top 4's squads and would push for (but not be certain of) a starting place in all the too. The other 3 would all be useful additions to all of the top 4's squads but only Palacios (with Utd and Arsenal) would get into the first 11 (outside chance of Defoe at Arsenal) imo.
edit: If King was fit then he'd be in a simlar boat as Modric.
When Everton last finished in the top 4 (2005) they didn't have as good players as any of the top 6. A front line of Ferguson Marcus Bent and Beattie wouldn't get into that spurs second squad
You don't need superstars you need a group of players that play well for each other and never give up to break into that top 4.
Spurs have more than enough this year to break into the top 4.
Soldato
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Chelsea:
Cech, Cole, Carvalho, Terry, Bosingwa, Cole, Lampard, Essien, Deco, Drogba, Anelka
and
Turnbull, Belletti, Ferreira, Ivanovic, Alex, Ballack, Zhirkov, Mikel, Malouda, Shevchenko, Kalou
Arsenal:
Almunia, Sagna, Clichy, Gallas, Vermaelen, Nasri, Arshavin, Fabregas, Denilson, van Persie, Eduardo
and
Fabianski, Gibbs, Eboue, Senderos, Djourou, Walcott, Diaby, Rosicky, Diaby, Bentdner, Vela
Are better by far anyway.
Who are you saying is better than who?
Caporegime
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I'm not getting carried away. I posted something similar before the season began and really do think that we have an fantastic squad. Whilst we have very few superstars, there have been occasions where lesser teams than the top 4 have sneaked that position. I mean, we just missed out once before and that was with a much lesser squad than we have now.
Still, I'm a realistic Spurs fan. I'm aiming for 6th place this year.
Still, I'm a realistic Spurs fan. I'm aiming for 6th place this year.
I never really agree with this sort of comment (not just about Arsenal specifically). Players can be good players and not play every week if there are better options available. That's the whole point when talking about strength and depth, you say "our reserves are better than XYZ in team B, that proves the strength in depth, they are that good and yet they can't even get in our team, meaning that we have yet more even better players keeping them out".
Look at the Spain national team, Fabregas can't get in the starting XI quite often. Are you telling me Fabregas isn't a good player?
There's no shame in saying you're not quite as good as Chavvy and InThereYesSir.
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Caporegime
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Agreed.
IMO Gibbs/Traore/Silvestre aren't as good a backup as the likes of Bale and possibly Zhirkov (haven't seen enough of the latter to comment with any certainty, just going on reputation). Gallas would fit the bill but then he's a first choice CB so can't really be counted.
Talking about Arsenal in general, I don't think there's necessarily a lack of numbers, as mentioned we have a lot of versatile players who can cover multiple positions. The problem is that some of those players are not proven at the highest level, they haven't got a fistful of trophies and dozens of MOTM awards from big fixtures to their names. The likes of Vela, he looks good at times, then other games he goes missing, but the bottom line is if we were going into a CL semi and had to rely on him, I'd be worried. Not saying he couldn't handle it, just that it's a risk, whereas there are some backup players at other clubs (and Arsenal) where you think, yeah, that's a solid backup you know you can rely on because he's been there and done it before.
That said, I don't necessarily have a problem with having relatively unproven young players as backups, I think that can be more cost effective and potentially a greater benefit in the long term that a bunch of 'seasoned pros' like we've seen at clubs like Chelsea and MU in recent years. Heck if you think about it, it's been pretty rare that you'll see a real experienced guy regularly warming the bench for Arsenal, normally they are either in the first XI or get shipped out.
If you look at the starting XI this season, you've got Song, Denilson and Bendtner. None of them have truly delivered at club level in the way that the stars of yesteryear did. Would those three all get regular starts at clubs like Chelsea? Doubtful.
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I wasn't comparing the two, I was saying both were better than Spurs' first and second teams.
When Everton last finished in the top 4 (2005) they didn't have as good players as any of the top 6. A front line of Ferguson Marcus Bent and Beattie wouldn't get into that spurs second squad
You don't need superstars you need a group of players that play well for each other and never give up to break into that top 4.
Spurs have more than enough this year to break into the top 4.
The top 4 aren't the same as they were even a few years ago. Liverpool didn't have Torres, Arsenal had a younger Fabregas and no Arshavin etc. etc.
The gap gets bigger every year, there's no chance Spurs will finish top 4.
Caporegime
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Forgetting he was Chelsea's first choice until Cech got his chance and even then, there's no shame in being second choice to Cech.
Fabregas can't change his nationality though, would he go to Barca and sit on the bench? Doubt it.
Forgetting he was Chelsea's first choice until Cech got his chance and even then, there's no shame in being second choice to Cech.
So Cudicini is a top 4 class keeper but has decided to warm Spurs' bench for what reason?
Caporegime
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Because Gomes did fantastically for us after winning back his place from Cudi.
And the offer are flooding in for Cudicini to play in the Champions League?