Soldato
He's not better than either Nani or Valencia though so how would he get in our team?
De Gea's camp have apparently confirmed they've been in contact with United, seems he's the one then...
** Summer Transfer Window 2011/12 Season Rumours/Signings **
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He's not better than either Nani or Valencia though so how would he get in our team?
De Gea's camp have apparently confirmed they've been in contact with United, seems he's the one then...
I dont know why - but Barca might be in the hunt for De Gea as of today also (a couple of online "sources" have started with this rumour today)
As for Young - for £25m its a no-brainer (as in completely forget it lol), but for 1/2 that, it would be good to see what he can do on the left (being that Nani is ok on the left, but far better on the right)
Potentially that would give Utd Nani / Valencia competing for right wing and Young / Fabio / Giggs on the left (I wouldnt be surprised if Fabio got some more outings in the advanced left position next season). Young is also useful centrally also (although hopefully we will have that covered lol), SAF After all likes all his buys to be versatile after all
Good find
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Caporegime
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How many players from Spain/Portugal/Italy stay long term in the UK exactly? How many English players move to the other leagues(at all, let alone long term)?
Chances of Nani seeing out his career at Utd, 2%, chances of Young seeing out his career at Utd if they bought him, 90%+.
As for not better than either of them, sure? 3 years ago he gets 8 goals, 17 assists, 2 years ago 7 goals 9 assists, last season 5 goals 11 assists, this year 6/7 so far.
Nani 9 goals 16 assists, last year, 3 goals 10 assists, year before, 1/4.
Valencia got 5 goals 9 assists last year, 3/5, 3/4 the years before that. Not sure how you'd say Young is worse than Valencia, he's doing better at a significantly worse club, with before Bent, almost no striker to provide goals to for 18 months before that.
First accounting for the club Young is at and the players he has given service to I'd say he's the best of all three, because he's been consistant for 4 seasons, the biggest change for Young from 2 years ago to last season was Carew turning into a lump of lard and Gabby stopped scoring. His delivery is fantastic from corners and freekicks, he'll defend better than Nani every day of the week, he'll dive almost as well(to be fair Young seems to have cut it out this season, last season was plain embarassing).
Then you have to take into account the simple things, Nani has played 2200 minutes this season had an injury, some niggles and played VERY little previously, Young has played 2300, last year 3300, he played 3200 the year before, 3300 the year before that, 2800 the year before that. He's a proven NON sick note, thats a pretty big thing in todays game. He's versatile, can play anywhere in midfield or upfront, he's got pace to burn, good defensively, work rate second to non, a naturally "fit" player who rarely gets injured.
Nani is so far, a one season wonder, he has never shown a hint of this form before, and at the best club in the league Young easily surpases what he's contributed to his team in the past 3 seasons.
Young is good value at 25mil, he'll be a top class played for another decade and WON'T be constantly looking to move back home. This is all ignoring the fact that assuming 2 wingers will play every game all season is utterly stupid. Valencia has played how much this season, since when is 3 top wingers a bad idea, even more so with Giggs becoming useless and playing less and less.
Personally I think Valencia is solid, but not outstanding, his best season for Utd, in a pretty good year for Utd, with Rooney getting a tonne of goals from Valencia type crosses, Young was still the better player.
EDIT:_ Couple changes, premier league site is being a bit dodgey when you click on a player stats its not always using the current year. Was showing Young with last years stats as in the main list for some reason.
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Caporegime
Can we get a law put in place that DM is not allowed to look up stats any more, it is driving me ******* nuts. Stats do not paint the whole picture. I far preferred it when his meaningless rants were just words, now I see
"well 3 is bigger than 2 and Young has run an average of 21.63 yards more than Nani in the first 12 mins of all home matches played on a sunny day, so he is clearly the better player"
"well 3 is bigger than 2 and Young has run an average of 21.63 yards more than Nani in the first 12 mins of all home matches played on a sunny day, so he is clearly the better player"
complete **** if you ask me lol
Young was at the same club he had been at for donkey's years - no real pressure, got a moderate amount of goals (but nothing outstanding) and a good number of assists
Valenica - 1st season at a new club (one of the biggest in the world), so even without the pressure of being a new signing (for a decent amount of money) he also had to deal with the pressure of going for titles straight away etc etc etc (Young has never had to worry about that). Not only that AV also had to share the right wing with Nani at some points last season and yet he still got the same amount of goals (BBC are actually saying he got 6 last season, I actually thought it was 7 lol) and nearly the same amount of assists
Horrible season so far for AV with being out for 6 months but he is looking good now he is back
AY is NOT worth £25m with only 1 season left on his contract - not even close , even with the "He's British so lets try and get another £5-10m on the transfer"
Young was at the same club he had been at for donkey's years - no real pressure, got a moderate amount of goals (but nothing outstanding) and a good number of assists
Valenica - 1st season at a new club (one of the biggest in the world), so even without the pressure of being a new signing (for a decent amount of money) he also had to deal with the pressure of going for titles straight away etc etc etc (Young has never had to worry about that). Not only that AV also had to share the right wing with Nani at some points last season and yet he still got the same amount of goals (BBC are actually saying he got 6 last season, I actually thought it was 7 lol) and nearly the same amount of assists
Horrible season so far for AV with being out for 6 months but he is looking good now he is back
AY is NOT worth £25m with only 1 season left on his contract - not even close , even with the "He's British so lets try and get another £5-10m on the transfer"
Soldato
Lets face it stats comparing Young, Nani and Valencia are meaningless seeing as...
1- Nani's only established himself this season/the end of last season
2- Valencia's first season with us was last season before that he was at Wigan
Any comparison stats should be taken from this season only and regarding Young's goal return a margin of those are from the penalty spot whereas all of Nani's and Valencia's are from open play
Not to mention stats aside it's plainly clear that both Nani and Valencia are more talented than Ashley Young
1- Nani's only established himself this season/the end of last season
2- Valencia's first season with us was last season before that he was at Wigan
Any comparison stats should be taken from this season only and regarding Young's goal return a margin of those are from the penalty spot whereas all of Nani's and Valencia's are from open play
Not to mention stats aside it's plainly clear that both Nani and Valencia are more talented than Ashley Young
Caporegime
I woudlnt want AY for 25 million.
Did no one see him for england vs Ghana? he first touch is what i would call, less than the standard required...
Im sure we have too few CM and enough wingers for the time being.. Just wait for Youngs contract to run out and bolster our CM this year and we are sorted?
Did no one see him for england vs Ghana? he first touch is what i would call, less than the standard required...
Im sure we have too few CM and enough wingers for the time being.. Just wait for Youngs contract to run out and bolster our CM this year and we are sorted?
Caporegime
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You really are a complete fool then, you have a go at me for using stats, say it doesn't paint the entire picture and CLEARLY did not read my post.
I in no way at all concievably only talked about stats. Does the fact Nani will go to Spain not factor into his value and that Young will move to a top 4 club and probably see out his career there? So you pass on Young and buy a new 15mil player every 4 years for the next 12 seasons, or you buy Young, at 25mil and not need a replacement for him for 12 seasons. Ok, obviously value of sale comes into it, infact theres nothing to suggest its not a GOOD idea to buy in Ronaldo's, get use, and make a mint, its great business. However, one of the reasons the club has been so stable has been a core at the club unchanged, how would Arsenal be doing with 4-5 players in the team who had been there for a decade, won things, experience, calmness in big games, been there done that.
With Giggs and Scholes, VDS all ending their careers you have very few first team players along the same lines anymore.
But thats all "stats" right? The fact he doesn't seem to get injured and can basically play 36+ games in a 38 game league a season, is all about the stats.
Simple fact is, he's the best winger you can buy today who might see out his career at Utd. Fact, at a worse club he's provided more goals and assists than Nani or Valencia has over 3 or 4 seasons. Reasonable goals and assists, so 9 goals for Young is reasonable yet Nani on 9 goals is the bestest year of anyone ever, 17 assists isn't great but 16 is the bestest thing ever to happen
Nani's at a better club, with, you know, strikers ahead of him. How many assists do you think Nani would have in the past 18 months with Carew/Heskey starting games, you honestly can say you don't think he'd have less?
AS for no pressure, sure, highest scoring midfielder, highest assisting midfielder, team can't score, team dropping down the league, Young is their "star" player, no pressure at all. Rooney is probably under the most pressure at Utd as everyone expects him to be the go to guy, Nani has been distinctly NOT that guy for 3 years, while Young is the same for Villa as Rooney is, he's their go too guy.
But thats ALL about the stats, sorry to overload my post with stats.
Oh wait, someone else claimed Valencia was flat out better than Young(while ignoring that Utd play far more than 2 wingers throughout a season), and I responded by pointing out that Young got more goals, and assists, and their best seasons are frankly incomparible with Young being vastly more effective.
Caporegime
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From what I remember he, put in a fantastic ball for Downing to miscontrol which Carroll scored. In the previous game Young created both goals, won the penalty, and got the other assist, before that against Denmark he scored one of the two goals, and before that he got the assist for the single goal against France. He's been by a country mile Englands best player since he's been starting games.
All the usual places were truly horrible for finding england results which was weird but, of the last 6 goals England has scored it would seem he's assisted or scored, 5 of them, not the required England quality, who exactly is then?
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Caporegime
That you used the word fact in that post is a crime against common sense.
Caporegime
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What absolute drivel, Valencia was with Wigan before, so that can't be taken into account? By the same logic, we can only compare Youngs stats to those two AFTER he's joined Utd?
Nani only established himself this season........ what most people would say was Nani simply wasn't good enough to warrant a starting spot in previous seasons, which says something about how good he was.
Lets when talking about rooney only talk about his best year because anything else is unfair, for Berbatov, lets just, errm, I dunno, lets only include home games against teams starting with a B and he's literally the best striker ever then.
Where does it stop, all three players have played in this league for 4 seasons(basically) Nani was rubbish, trying tricks, lazy, selfish, diving, no end product and so didn't get to start, there was nothing preventing him from playing except his own ability. Valencia seems solid enough, he didn't for one second look unsettled in the league or at the club last year, and goals/assists wise he wasn't brilliant, not at all bad.
Penalties, yes it effects scoring stats, but then if you consistantly score them and take freekicks because you're that good, thats part of your game.
What if Nani goes back to his old self next season, or demands a move because he's so good now.
Consistancy is the key to a great player, countless players have managed one fantastic season, exponentially less manage consistancy in the league, ignoring that, when its pretty much they MOST valuable part of a players game is utterly utterly laughable.
Caporegime
Please stick to talking about Arsenal, I can't take any more assumptions from you 
Soldato
And right there you've hit the nail on the head
Two years ago then yeah maybe there would have been those that would have swapped Nani for Ashley Young but times have changed and right now Nani is better than Ashley Young
As for the point about Valencia, the reason why you cant throw your stat book at him is because over the last 3 seasons he's spent one injured for the majority and another, at Wigan who have been a significantly poorer club in terms of quality than what Villa have been over the last 3 seasons.
As for your other point about why we should sign Young it's utter deluded rubbish tbh, you cant go around spending vast amounts of money on players you dont need on the off chance than one of your better players may or may not decide they want a move in a year or two's time. As it is Nani to this point has shown none of the desire that Ronaldo showed all the time about moving to Spain so there's zilch to backup your assumptions!
You cannot compare Nani in previous seasons to this. This is the first season he has been consitantly played on the right, in which time he has been far better than Valencia ever has been. The fact he scored more and got more assists than Valencia while playing less and played out of position before that shows either how average Valencia is or how good Nani is.
I would take young over Valencia without a second thought, but I wouldn't even consider replacing Nani with him.
To be fair - why not compare Nani's first season at Utd to Valencia's? Thats just as biased as your view imo (Nani had been at Utd 3 seasons before he was even comparably good as Valencia)
Nani also was no-where near as consistant last season as he has been this, and its no coincidence that Rooney has been scoring less this season with Valencia out for 6 months of it.
I dont think the minutes on the pitch was that heavily weighted last season, but even if it was surely that just as clearly shows how inconsistant Nani was playing that a new addition would be played instead of him.
If Valencia gets back to full health , I would put a £10 bet down right now that within 2 full seasons of games he is comparable to Nani's stats this season.
Nani has had years studying the same players in the Utd team and yet he could only marginally improve on someone who just arrived in the team (on last season's stats). Even compariing EPL knowledge in general Nani still has a season more than Valencia
There were enough games (varying in importance) where Nani was subbed off from his favoured position because he was playing so poorly and Valencia helped in turning the game around - Nani isnt the be all and end all this season (he has improved consistancy though - hopefully he can do this for more than a season), but last season he could be diabolical in a number of games.
Try and be a little less biased
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I'll up that bet to £100 that Valencia never in any season in his career at United matches Nani in any respect when Nani plays on the right.
So thats in comparable games on the right (Nanis position) Valencia never matches Nani.
Again, why are you bringing Nanis consistancy last season into it? He was played almost entirely on the left which he isnt very good at, and he still, despite being dropped, missing games, and playing out of position, was more productive than Valencia.
I know, he moans when you have a dig at the dross, and he moans when you big up the decent players.
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