Summer Transfer Window 2017/18 - Rumours & Signings

[BaZ87]

Plenty, yet there are plenty more who asked for a transfer and got it. Player power is rife in the game.

Whether he will knuckle down remains to be seen, which is what I said originally, we don't know how he will react. It's an expensive risk imo.

I completely understand that lots of players who want to move end up getting their way. I thought the question was how Coutinho would react if he doesn't get his way. History suggests that the vast majority of players that are put in the position knuckle down - again I can only think of Berahino in recent years that hasn't.

Looking at the way this transfer window is going, it looks like we're going to have plenty of future examples as Coutinho appears to be just 1 of many players that don't look like getting their way.

 

[BaZ87]

I can think of a few which I edited in above, but not that many, can't remember if they were sold before being forced to stay some of them were a while back.

I guess we will see what happens in the next couple of weeks, if he keeps his head down and doesn't kick up a fuss I would assume he will be fine.

I'm not sure what the situation with Ben Arfa was but both Payet and Gallas left during the window they kicked up the fuss in - they weren't forced to stay.

And you're right re Gallas - it was reported that he threatened to score an own goal (iinm he subsequently played the game and didn't) if he wasn't sold and he was eventually sold as part of the Cole to Chelsea deal.

 

[BaZ87]

VVD is another one that will be interesting if he doesn't get moved on, will Saints sell? He's obviously kicked off big time so might be hard for him to come back into the fold if they try and force him to stay.

What's most interesting in the VvD saga is Southampton's stance. Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal and Spurs all didn't want to sell Masch, Suarez, Ronaldo, Fabregas or Modric - money wasn't a motivation to them but Southampton have shown that their entire business plan has been to buy well and sell on for a huge profit. For Liverpool they'd happily keep Coutinho for another season even if it meant getting £15-20m less next summer. Would that make as much sense to Southampton with VvD?

 

[BaZ87]

The Costa transfer isn't a case of the club wanting to keep the player though. Costa wants to leave and Chelsea want to sell him (didn't Conte text him to say he had no future at the club?) - the problem is that Chelsea hoped he'd got to China for stupid money but that never materialised and Costa's holding out for a return to Atletico who can't sign him yet and won't pay a big fee for him.

 

[BaZ87]

Thats not strictly true is it, they CAN sign him they just cant register / play him (like Barca summer before last who got Turan? who couldnt play for several months)?

Atleti probably dont want his wages on their books for that time admittedly (the difference in the suitable size of the fee is probably whats holding up the deal at a guess)

They can't transfer his registration, yes. Sorry if I wasn't clear - did it make a difference to the point of the post?

 

[BaZ87]

If you could just take the on field Costa without the baggage* off the field, I'd take a horrible **** like Costa at Liverpool all day long. He's one of only a very few strikers that I could see Klopp changing his system for.

*by baggage I'm talking about the constant talk of wanting to go back to Spain, then wanting to go to China, again wanting to go back to Atletico.

I think Chelsea have treated him terribly. As much as he's a horrible **** they way they have treated an asset is pathetic.

At the very least it's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. From the very first season he joined Chelsea there was constant speculation that he wanted to move back to Spain and then half way through last season, on their way to the title he's trying to force a transfer to China. It was clear from January that Costa's Chelsea future was up at the end of the season - it was widely reported that he and Conte effectively reached a truce that he'd stay until the summer and then could leave.

It appears that this mess has been caused by a new tax on foreign transfers to the Chinese League. With the move to China off the table Chelsea have got a player they've told has no future at the club but nobody to sell him to.

Chelsea's biggest (only) mistake was completely committing to getting shot of him without a concrete offer on the table.

 

[BaZ87]

I'd rather our ex players were saying we should sign Suarez than have them saying we should sign Gareth Barry

And as mad as Thompson's comments are, if City do end up signing Sanchez you have to wonder what the future holds for Aguero. There were already question marks over his importance to Pep from last season, with it appearing that he preferred Jesus to him. With the signing of Sliva and potentially Sanchez too, will he be the first name on the team sheet as he once was?

The Chelsea/Conte/Costa situation is quite funny at the moment.
The press completely ignore what's said by the club and Conte regarding how happy he is at the club, how in tune he is with the hierarchy and his long term desires here and just focus on what Costa says and how badly he's been treated etc
Conte and the club aren't at odds about anything to do with Costa or a lack of signings, it's Costa who's bat**** and that's all that matters as far as stories go.
As is always the case I guess reality is never as sellable as myth in football.

Like I said last night, the mistake Chelsea made was to tell Costa he had no future at the club without their being a concrete offer on the table.

 

[BaZ87]

Maybe, I suppose only time will tell but hasn't there already been stories saying that your new owner has told Pellegrino that he needs to sell if he wants to buy anybody else?

 

[BaZ87]

What's interesting is why a club that's just received a straight £200m fee for Neymar aren't in a position to offer a big percentage of the guaranteed transfer fee up front. I can understand the add-ons are there to safeguard them, so they only pay that headline figure if Coutinho becomes worth it but of the £80m odd that's guaranteed, why try to just pay £16m of it up front?

Barca's finances have always been a bit of a mystery but I've read a few bits and pieces suggesting that the cost of new deals for Messi (+ a few others) and the work on the stadium have hit them hard. That could be a lot of nonsense though and they just don't want to show their hand too early as it will weaken their position if and when Liverpool do negotiate with them. The irony with that is had Barca made a serious cash bid (around the £100m mark) 3 weeks ago when it was clear Neymar was off, they'd have had a far better chance of getting Coutinho.

Would anything change though if Barca offered £120m up front? Liverpool are giving the impression they won't sell him whatever the offer. I don't think he's worth that or irreplaceable but as people have said, Liverpool will end up in the same position as Barcelona are in now, so they'll have to massively overpay for a replacement who probably won't be as good, at least to start with.

The only way I can see anything changing is if Coutinho acts like a total **** (it won't bother Barca) and forces his way out in a somewhat unprofessional manner.

It's difficult to put a set figure on what Liverpool will sell for. The question is whether they can take that money and bring players in that will make us better off - it's no good taking £100m if we can't sign an equally good replacement or improve the side as a whole for that much.

If Barca came back with an offer that gave us enough money to make offers for Keita & VvD that Red Bull & Southampton couldn't refuse and sign somebody like a Draxler or Pulisic then you push for as much as you can but ultimately you sell. How much that magical figure will be will depend on what the club feel it will cost us to end up better off.

 

[BaZ87]

I think VvD, Draxler and Keita would put Liverpool in a much better position than just having Coutinho, but you're talking £150m+ at least for the three...

It would cost much more than £150m but I didn't mean sign them with just the Coutinho money. We already set aside £50m for VvD and £70m for Keita but it doesn't appear as if that is enough to persuade either Southampton or Red Bull to sell. If for example Barca come back with a straight cash offer of £110m, we could then increase those fees by £20m each and still have £70m odd to hopefully sign a top attacking mid/winger/forward.

I'm just using those figures as examples though - I have no idea whether an extra £20m apiece will be enough to get VvD or Keita and whether we could sign a quality forward for £70m. As has been said before, as soon as we take Barca's money the cost of signing replacements will increase.

 

[BaZ87]

Yes on reflection I wasn't adding the Draxler cost, though haven't Red Bull and Southampton pretty much refused to sell them for £70m and £50m respectively already.

Seemingly so but the point I was making was that we could take part of any Coutinho fee and increase those bids & hopefully sign a forward too - take £40m from the Coutinho money and increase our bids to £70m and £90m + sign a forward with the rest. Or at least that would be the most logical way for us to end up better off by selling Coutinho - we're not going to be able to sign a like for like replacement for the same amount.

 

[BaZ87]

He told him via text he wasn't wanted by the club, poor man management to someone who was your top scorer and was key to Conte winning a title in his 1st season. Wouldn't surprise if this whole fiasco has ****** off Abramovich. Very poor way of handling things

Costa wanted to leave and has been (reportedly at least) trying to do so for 2 years. It's no surprise that Chelsea wanted him gone and were looking to build without him. As I've said, the mistake was Conte telling that before a deal was on the table.

 

[BaZ87]

Yeah, reports have said he's been unhappy and he's said they are rubbish..who knows what to believe. You've got assume he's been happy to play for Chelsea, he gave an interview recently saying if it was his choice, he'd be playing at the moment, helping Chelsea, but obviously he's fallen out with Conte. For me, Conte is the leader and i don't think you should send a text to your top goalscorer from your previous winning league season saying he's not needed, at least tell him face to face.

Players and clubs are always very political when it comes to who's to blame for a transfer. Costa may well be saying stories linking him with a move away are or were rubbish but when they're going on for over 2 years you've got to ask yourself why. You only have to look back to last January when the situation very nearly blew up. It was strongly reported and I don't think he or anybody disputed it, that he'd received a massive offer to go to China and wanted to leave - right in the middle of Chelsea going for the title. He ended up out of the side for a couple of games while the situation was resolved.

Whether by text or face to face, the mistake from Conte was telling him he had no future before there was a serious offer to buy him.

 

[BaZ87]

The China stories were still being reported at the start of the summer - 5 seconds on google and I can find reports that Costa & his agent were even pictured meeting reps from some Chinese club.

 

[BaZ87]

That's irrelevant. If the season is over, that's fine, but the bust up wasn't over a move to China. He's quite adamant that he want's to go back to Atletico.

He's adamant that he wants to join Atletico now, after the China transfer was blocked by a new tax brought about. Can you find anything reliable saying the bust-up wasn't linked to a potential deal to China?

 

[BaZ87]

That quotation was from the Telegraph. If he wants to go to China, then why isn't he going? why has he said he doesn't want to go, he only want's to go back to Atletico. Chelsea would prefer to sell to China, they'll get more money, Costa will get a bigger wage as well, so if he's wanted to go, why hasn't he gone already?

I explained why. A new tax was introduced to stop Chinese clubs from spending fortunes on players from Europe. The move to China is now off the table.

 

[BaZ87]

The move was never on the table, he categorically denied he wanted to leave, he's only ever wanted to go back to Atletico.

But they could still offer loads compared to Atletico..

Ok, if you believe that. Nothing happened in January to lead to him being left out the side and 100 stories reporting he was trying to leave - maybe he and his agent met with reps of that Chinese club to exchange chow mein recipes.

 

[BaZ87]

You know that the papers make up 90% of the stories, don't you?
Look at what his quotes have been over the years and it creates a bigger picture.
You've no idea what Mendes was up to? If a club offer to meet you, pay for everything and ask to talk, it's called good will, doesn't mean you're literally moving to that club.

Yes, coincidently every newspaper made up the same story on the same day and it just coincided with Costa being dropped - all one big coincidence And Costa & his agent met with some Chinese club out of good will and a free meal

I know newspapers will exaggerate and make things up but when they're all reporting the same story it's a result of them being briefed that information. Who briefed them and why I don't know but I can't think of a logical reason why anybody connected to the situation would leak that story if it wasn't true.

And while newspapers make things up, so do clubs and players. As I said, clubs and players can be very political when it comes to pr around transfers. They all want to be seen as the good guy and will say things to paint themselves as the innocent party in all this.

 

[BaZ87]

I'll use my common sense thanks. If you do too you can usually tell how legit a story is. If you want to believe a pr line from Costa that's fine, I don't though.

 

[BaZ87]

Supposedly Barca have given Liverpool a deadline until tomorrow night to change their mind about their latest offer for Coutinho or they'll withdraw it

I don't think either party comes out of this particularly well however you don't tell a player that played a big part in you winning the league that he isn't required by text. It's cowardly.

Maybe Conte didn't want his eyes gauged or have spit flicked on him.