Personally from the research it would make sense to also take some before bed to aid recovery.
Supplements the debate/discussion thread
- Thread starter Freefaller
- Start date
Add some MCT and / or some carbs to that whey if you want to gain weight.
Or, just have another meal in the day - like some nuts and fruits, peanut butter, etc... or heck, chicken/rice/broccoli/meat/fish/anything!
SPW already answered this from a Don's point of view.
However, why even suggest experimenting with exogenous hormones - it's not for casual conversation, especially not a forum - and it's not as if you can just medical supplies in a shop!
There are some people on here who ride the bike. And some who don't who are big beefcakes and most of us are more interested in doing things naturally - because taking the sort of supplements you're suggesting are not to be discussed in a trivial/matter-of-factly way. Just like any drug, it's abuse, and lack of knowledge can lead to very serious implications from, gyno and infertility as well as serious cholesterol and blood pressure increases to at worse, death. The list is large.
The natural supplements discussed in this thread will generally not cause any significant issues other than perhaps, headaches, flatulence or short term intolerances to them
There aren't that many bodybuilders on here either which is generally where messing about with your body's hormones is beneficial.
If you want to discuss it more openly join the facebook group or chat about it on forums that allow it. This is not the place for it.
To be frank with you - yes. Don't forget it either.
That is very definition of cloak and dagger. The issue* exists, but nobody wants to talk about it. They prefer to brush it under the carpet and pretend the issue does not exist. Nobody wants or is permitted to openly talk about the subject, which is integral to sports supplementation.
*the issue being steroids.
However, the forums are run by OCUK and they make the rules, so I guess we must follow those rules.
Point taken.
Moving back onto the topic of supplements....
HMB: I've been using this stuff for about 2 months. I'm not sure if it makes any difference to my power or physique, but it certainly helps me sleep deeper. No question about it. Years ago, I tried Nytol to help regulate my sleep and that stuff was useless. I pulled an all-nighter (studying for exam next day) and completely forgot I took some. That was the last time I took that useless tablet. HMB is a great sleeping aid.
L Glutamine powder: I am currently trying this out. I have been on it continuously for about 2 months. I'm undecided about this. There was a thread made by someone who suggests taking purely L-Glutamine in the mornings, then not eating for at least 45 minutes. Apparently, this makes a person look better (better skin, etc). So I've been dosing as per his guide lines for the last week or so. I will let you know how I get on.
Whey protein: of course, this is a no-brainer.
Superpump 250 Max: I've tried out many pre-workout supps and this works the best, for me. It increases my heart-rate and makes me alter (improved focus). It also improves my physical performance.
ECA stack: when cutting, this is without doubt, the best stack I have used. The rest just don't work. This stack kills your hunger. It gives you a physical and psychological boost, allowing you to train at high intensity for extended periods of time. Ephedrine is banned by most anti-doping authorities and should not be overdosed on. I've been using this stuff for the last 10 years during my cutting phase with no problems (though I am careful on dosage).
Fine milled oats: I've had these in my protein shake and they mix well.
I have mixed feelings about oat supplements. If you are desperately trying to pack on mass at any cost (or involved in endurance sports), I'd certainly use this supplement, but for most purposes I can't see why I would use an oat supplement, vs "normal" food.
Freefaller gave me a good reply earlier on this thread regarding the benefits of oats. I would reply and state that most of what he stated can be achieved by a slice of bread. Furthermore, by adding some butter and tuna to the bread, you can easily turn that into a filling/tasty/healthy snack. You can't do this with the oat supplement.
Summary
IMO, caffeine is arguably the the best supplement for exercise. Pre-workout supps normally contain caffeine and some form of creatine.
Caffiene is also used in ECA stacks to remove fat from the body.
Whey protein is also a great supplement.
I feel that other supplements offer poor value for money, given the benefits they bring to the table. I'd rather spend the money on (real) food.
The above are my opinions of taking supplements for many years. I hope I haven't offended anybody.
Steroids for personal use I have no issues with, but then you get a lot of people who say they're "not on them" who are, and have won things (i.e. Lance "I'm a scapegoat" Armstrong) who are despicable as they're playing victim despite cheating.
Now in a sport like professional bodybuilding where everyone is on the same page - sure, at least everyone knows they're in the same boat.
It's the naivety of people who think actors for example, get jacked without them - of course they use them, but they do not glamourise them (nor should they) because it will never be the same for the public, all these guys have private doctors monitoring their blood levels, health, and offering them certified medical supplies rather than backstreet made in Thailand dodgy crap. They're closely monitored - and have the time to workout 2x a day and eat the best foods.
Except ECAs are in a grey area too.... :/
Anyway, back onto the more salient points of this thread.
Caffeine has always been agreed to be a good boost pre work out.
Creatine is one of the most researched and accepted supplement out there - it's effectiveness varies depending on diet, exercise and how it is taken/stacked, cycled.
I do agree with you on the food > supplements - however, supplements have their place if you do eat a poor diet, or if you're not able to get your diet in check owing to whatever circumstances you are going through, or if you need to boost your diet / workout / recovery if it falls short somewhere.
HMB works even better stacked with creatine. It's an active metabolite within leucine which is vital for protein synthesis - and is really used for increasing LBM. I guess that's possibly why your sleep has improved - but it's not the biggest sell IMO for such a supplement.
Bread is actually pretty poor nutritionally speaking - especially the stuff you buy in the shops - it's highly processed, and sugar content is high.
Oats aren't a supplement, they are a food.
Whey protein doesn't "do" anything - it just provides your body with more protein.
You just do not need any supplements to lose weight. Just hard work.
Yes that's obvious. However, I just have coffee - I don't like putting unnecessary chemicals into my body.
So have other "special" supplements, as well as a lot of natural supplements, but also eating well, and doing the right sort of exercise.
Or what's even better is.... follow a healthy lifestyle, and not relying on chemicals to help you lose weight?
1. Agreed.
2. Not that clear cut - "Can be helpful" yes, but it's not an absolute as you say - not by any stretch of the imagination.
Going the "quick win" route is just not the right way of going about it IMO.
IT's good that you're learning about these things - we all did it to a certain extent, some are going further than I'd like to go - but as long as you're aware of what you're doing, and don't think it's a magical solution to problems. However, the research of a lot of these supplements are endless - as many have some which support them and others that show just placebo like effects (i.e. nothing
). However, everyone responds to things differently, and everyone's diets/lifestyles aren't the same.Pretty obvious
However, I wish you good fortune on your chemical experimentation.
Pass me to doobie maaaaaan
And your body starts to digest itself - no thanks!
If you're after a good price for coconut oil:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Biona-Organic-Raw-Virgin-Coconut/dp/B005GUU680/ref=pd_cp_d_0
It was discussed in the cuisine forum.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Biona-Organic-Raw-Virgin-Coconut/dp/B005GUU680/ref=pd_cp_d_0
It was discussed in the cuisine forum.
I would want to make sure it's unbleached and un hydrogenated and good quality. But I don't buy cheap rubbish food. However I understand that not everyone has that mindset or ability. it's cheaper than the myprotein one.
This isn't a supp anyway. I consider it food.
it's cheaper than the myprotein one. This isn't a supp anyway. I consider it food.
It's cheaper than MP - yeah it's nice - you have to take it easy initially it's so nice you can easily eat 000s of calories! 
However it's awesome for cooking with - and it's potentially thermogenic and little to no insulin response.
However it's awesome for cooking with - and it's potentially thermogenic and little to no insulin response.
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Agreed!
They cannot add the words if it isn't. I just like good quality foods.
None of the shops near me supply coconut oil - or at least not at a competitive price. So I buy it online.
It's no more stupid and ignorant than people blindly buying lots of supps. For me, I'm pretty confident my choices are above average and done with due care and intelligence. i.e. keeping away fro, unhuydrogenated, bleached and lower quality items. You do what you want though, I don't spend my money on supps, but on good quality foods.
Taste wise, there's not that much taste, and mainly used for cooking as an alternative owing to it's low to 0 oxidation and high smoke point, it also doesn't denature under heat. I don't often eat it by the spoon, but I do get a decent thermogenic reaction from it which is quite nice.
None of the shops near me supply coconut oil - or at least not at a competitive price. So I buy it online.
It's no more stupid and ignorant than people blindly buying lots of supps. For me, I'm pretty confident my choices are above average and done with due care and intelligence. i.e. keeping away fro, unhuydrogenated, bleached and lower quality items. You do what you want though, I don't spend my money on supps, but on good quality foods.
Taste wise, there's not that much taste, and mainly used for cooking as an alternative owing to it's low to 0 oxidation and high smoke point, it also doesn't denature under heat. I don't often eat it by the spoon, but I do get a decent thermogenic reaction from it which is quite nice.
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It's not a dramatic "kick" like caffeine. I take one in the morning and one midday - and I just like the effect it has on me, it's not a massive lift, but I certainly feel less fatigued and generally more relaxed but focussed at the same time. It won't fix depression or if you're in a **** place of course.
How has it manifested itself for you?
You can buy the powder as long as it's 3% rosavins you'll be reet.
If not I've got myself the following:
http://www.echemist.co.uk/p-viridian-maximum-potency-rhodiola-rosea-root-veg-caps
If not I've got myself the following:
http://www.echemist.co.uk/p-viridian-maximum-potency-rhodiola-rosea-root-veg-caps
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It's a very subtle effect, but I prefer the powder as it's usually more potent - but it's a faff and doesn't taste nice.
Chong is another advocate of RR. I do sometimes suffer stress/anxiety and I find RR does help abate those symptoms.
Chong is another advocate of RR. I do sometimes suffer stress/anxiety and I find RR does help abate those symptoms.
AW thanks! I really rate BSD's quality - but maybe I'm biased, they are waiting to secure a new protein source soon.
IT's just protein. But I like their supps and prices. I'd also rather give my money to people I trust. However my yearly protein purchase is due soon so I hope they do get themselves back on track!
I'd also rather give my money to people I trust. However my yearly protein purchase is due soon so I hope they do get themselves back on track!