Supplements the debate/discussion thread

Disco Boy said:
Does anyone use greens powders? If so could you share your thoughts on what they taste like etc.

Obviously I realise that eating veg is preferable but, as with any shake, this way is easier.
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Yes, and it's a good supplement if you're not in a position to eat well or your 5 a day. However, there's no replacement for real greens. :)

nukemdukem said:
I like protein shakes...but not when it is just protein powder and water.

After a workout, the gym i go to makes protein shakes with real ingredients, ie milk, banana, peanuts, oats, wheatgerm, honey etc plus a scope of protein powder and lists for each shake the number of calories, protein, carbs and fat content.

So i always get one after a workout because it tastes great and i can roughly know the nutritional value of what i'm drinking - knowing it is an all rounder drink.

Normally i take it as my dinner or one of my lunches - depending if i go to the gym in the day or evening.

But also another key point i like about freshly made shakes is that it cuts down on me eating unhealthy food. The shakes i get obviously have no fried foods, no saturated fat, limited salt/sugar and additives - so its an easy way to be healthy too.

Eating in a city i find is always quite difficult, and if you want to eat healthy and not cook yourself - there is not really much choice.

Which leads me onto my dream of one day opening a healthy cafe / takeout place where all the food is cooked healthily and ingredients sourced for their nutritional benefit, and customers can decide on the content of protein, carbs, fat etc per order....maybe one day i'll put it on kickstarter! lol
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I'm sorry to sound a little bit harsh/blunt, but if you don't have time to cook yourself good quality and nutritious foods, then surely you're too lazy to eat properly or train properly no?

Working in the city is no excuse. If you want to achieve good results, you've got to put the effort in, in the gym and in the kitchen.

Shakes are good to SUPPLEMENT a diet, they shouldn't replace foods.

In London there are a lot of places that offer good quality foods, but you've got to pay the price. My lunches which work out at close to 1000 calories, have plenty of fats and proteins, as well as vegetable carbs in them to provide a good balance of nutrients.

Yes it's an effort, but heck, it's more enjoyable eating that than some poor quality floppy sandwich. And frankly relying on a shake, is quite unimaginative. IF you're clever you can get your lunches down to around £2 per day. £10 per week for a decent lunch isn't bad. Granted you have to be sensible and a little creative, but put the effort in!!
 
nukemdukem said:
i think some people have missed the point of my post. At the moment i am living in Singapore - getting most of the ingredients you describe is either very difficult or hugely expensive.

Also eating a huge salad everyday seems like the most boring thing i could ever do, and its got nothing to do with effort.

I think too many people make sweeping generalisations on what a protein shake is - it doesnt have to be water and protein powder.

For example, take the salads you describe, with advocado, nuts, etc can easlily be incorporated into a shake - just put it in a blender and hey presto 9obviously there are tried and tested recipies!)

Just because you take extra time to prepare food and extra time to eat it, doesnt make it any less or more beneficial.

If i could eat a banana, eat some nuts, eat some yogurt, drink some milk all seperately and thats considered good and the right way - but taking the same ingredients and blending them together into a protein shake is considered wrong and lazy - I would have to say i definetly dont agree with that.

Not that i am advocating drinking only protein shakes - but i think healthy, well made protein shakes are very useful, especially in my situation as part of my dialy diet.
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I'm not making sweeping generalisations - apologies if you took offence, I'm just stating that generally whole foods offer a better all round nutritional profile. A lot of people argue that whey protein is just a food, it is, but I see it as a supplement to whole food, not a replacement for food.

Having been to Singapore, whilst it is a little expensive in some places, there are a lot of good street food places and food parlours where you can eat good quality foods loaded with nutrients. You have awesome seafood there. Okay, I accept that if it is prohibitively expensive, then of course shakes are a good viable alternative if you do not have the opportunity to eat whole foods - such as perhaps your case. However, I'm still a strong believer that they should not replace food, but enhance or add to a diet.

Sure, if you want to put all the elements into a shake (fats, proteins, fibres, vitamins, omega 3 and other oils, etc...) fine - it gets just as expensive if not more just for that convenience. There is also that hormonal response to digestion and ingestion of food, which is enhanced when chewing and eating whole foods - sure, it's marginal, but hey, maybe I just enjoy eating more than others. A lot of people see food as just a way of staying alive, I see it as something to look forward to and get excited towards! :)

Good luck with your training and nutritional journey. Lucky chap living in Singapore! Love the place. :cool:

LiE said:
Agreed, don't need to call it anything really, you're eating food and it doesn't matter how you're doing it.
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Well it's not really a whole food though - it's a good way of delivering nutrition, and IS nutritious, and if you spend time, you can make the shakes a whole meal - but again I'd argue it's no replacement for a proper meal. :)
 
wozza2k said:
Not picking you out, but as a fellow Londoner can you give suggestions?

Itsu is the only one I can think of which isn't a sandwich and is actually healthy.
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I make my own food... however when I don't, I pop into the local waitrose and buy some chicken (you know the pre-cooked ones that are in packs - not the freshly roasted ones). Some salad, and just combine them - you can buy small packs of olive oil/mayo etc... Not perfect but better than nothing. Then, you might as well make your own foods :p

Alternatives, are Leon, and Pod, which do good food. And there are lots of little independent eateries that make fresh salads, and meat/fish dishes around my way - you just have to have a wander around.

I'm lucky that in Canary Wharf there's pretty much every restaurant chain there - but a few stalls that sell fresh good foods.

You just have to explore, and ask - as a Londoner you know that if you don't ask you don't get. So I often ask for something bespoke, even if it's not on the menu, if they don't serve what I want, I shop elsewhere, it's simple. However, the 5-10mins to prepare my own lunch saves all that aggravation and lots of money!
 
The all in one is similar to the blend I make for myself from their site - it's got a good cross section of ingredients and some carbs which can help with recovery, or even as just bolstering your calories.

Just go for their regular whey, unless you're lactose intolerant.
 
mrthingyx said:
Or... Just operate on the premise that 98% of the supplements on the market do nothing at the suggested doses or at all. ;)

And - scary as this may seem - do your own research as to what would suit you and your goals...

Sciencedirect.com
Pubmed.com
Google
Wikipedia
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Skunkworks said:
^Sums up most of this thread.
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Only if you're ignorant enough to spend £000s on supps without knowing how to take them or how to exploit their benefits.

Although being the thread starter, I'm quite interested in natural supplementation as I find it interesting, and have had tangible (albeit anecdotal) reactions from some of them.

I agree with you that being "on" a supp is a daft thing to say - but whey is just another bit of food, that helps to bolster up macros. Caffeine does have an energising effect, as do other pre-work out supplements. As for things like creatine and other amino acids, they have been widely researched and have proven benefits.

However, again, there are many supps that have more sketchy or unproven results, and are based on perception, which is daft.

However, if you're clued up on nutrition, and your training, and are in touch with your body's behaviour, some supplements, however subtle, may have a positive/or tangible effect on you. others, are just good for your health (i.e. fish oils).

So whilst I understand your throw away comment is said with a little bit of rolling eyes, also do bear in mind there are people here who aren't just blindly taking every legal/natural chemical/plant - a lot of people make well researched and calculated decisions. :)
 
Don't listen to icecold, he knows nothing.

In fact, don't listen to anyone here - they all follow broscience...

Oh no wait... that's just me! :D :D :D

Can I suggest you start a separate thread about this, this is the supplements thread, and this is going off topic.

We have a lot of learned people on this forum that would be happy to help you myth bust or provide scientific, or even anecdotal (that is valid within reason) evidence towards certain ways of eating/training etc.... and by that I don't mean fad diets etc... just a range of pros/cons of the basic information you need to help you make the best decisions for you.

It's not just about bodybuilding that we're interested in (I'm not a bodybuilder) but sports, exercise and nutrition in general.
 
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