Suzuka Circuit -JAPANESE Grand Prix 2009 - Race 15/17

Lopéz said:
So at the beginning of the year the Brawn was making Button look good because everyone else was so far behind.

Now the other teams have developed cars to the point that they're outperforming the Brawn, it's the drivers with "real pace" showing their skill? So it's nothing to do with them now having good cars? And Button's pace at the start of the year was all car and no Button? If so how did he win 6 and Barrichello win none then?
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because he is better than Barrichello :confused:

i'm not saying he doesnt deserve the most out of everyone this season. Of that there is no doubt. i am just saying that i don't think he is world championship winner good.

I do not think he is the best driver in the field by a long shot. I just think none of the other drivers had the equipment to challenge him in the first 5/6 races of the season.

I mean look at Hamilton last season, ferrari's hounding him all the way through.
 
Jono8 said:
I do not think he is the best driver in the field by a long shot. I just think none of the other drivers had the equipment to challenge him in the first 5/6 races of the season.
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Nobody had the equipment to challenge Prost and Senna in 1988, or Michael Schumacher for a few years. Or Mansell in 1992. Doesn't mean they weren't deserving champions at the time.
 
Amazing to see Trulli with race pace.

Good to see the championship not decided.
Good to see Button still in control.
Good to see Vettel flying without any mistakes.
Good to see JRS maintaining "if that was a Ferrari driver everyone would be up in arms" mantra.

Bad to see Hamilton have issues and lose second.

Really bad times for Webber, when they clearly had those Red Bull cars hooked up.
 
gord said:
Amazing to see Trulli with race pace.

Good to see the championship not decided.
Good to see Button still in control.
Good to see Vettel flying without any mistakes.
Good to see JRS maintaining "if that was a Ferrari driver everyone would be up in arms" mantra.

Bad to see Hamilton have issues and lose second.

Really bad times for Webber, when they clearly had those Red Bull cars hooked up.
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Also good to see Kimi dragging that dog of an ancient Ferrari up the order, talk about pressure to get into a top team ;)
 
AcidHell2 said:
So you don't rate most WDCs then as most have had difficult 2nd half on there first WDCs.
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What's that got to do with anything, I didn't say anything about halves?

Button had a fantastic first half and even on bad weekends makes the most of it and takes a few points. Very deserving. It's the same every year, people belittle the leader.
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Why, yes, that's why I said Schumacher, Alonso, Raikkonen, Mika and Lewis didn't deserve to be champions. Oh wait... I didn't, did I?

Button is ahead because he's had a far better car for enough of the season. And, yes, no-one wins in a second rate car but rare's the season that anyone has had the kind of advantage Jenson has had this season. Moreover, there's nearly always a reason those drivers got those cars - they earned them by showing their talent.

As I say, I like Jenson, and he's not a bad driver but there's no way he's in the same league as Lewis, Alonso and Kimi. I'll be shocked if he ever wins a second championship.
 
Mr Jack said:
What's that got to do with anything, I didn't say anything about halves?



Why, yes, that's why I said Schumacher, Alonso, Raikkonen, Mika and Lewis didn't deserve to be champions. Oh wait... I didn't, did I?
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That's what I'm saying if you don't rte button and don't think he deserves it, then you have to say the same thing about other WDCs as they have done exactly the same, Schumacher and Hamilton included, prost to name a few.
Plenty of seasons where williams, mclaren or ferrari have had mass advantages over all the rest.
 
AcidHell2 said:
Plenty of seasons where williams, mclaren or ferrari have had mass advantages over all the rest.
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Sure there are? And?

All the great champions managed to win without that kind of advantage on at least one occasion, and beat the best of the field to do it. Button has never shown that kind of talent in any other season, and hasn't in this season.

Now, maybe, in the coming seasons he'll prove me wrong, which would be nice but I severely doubt it'll happen.
 
this is the first championship the hardest to get.
and how about buttons season with BAr when he came 2nd or was it 3rd any way same diff.

when has anyone run with a crap car? the cars have always been up there in the first few rows.
 
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Type_R said:
Also good to see Kimi dragging that dog of an ancient Ferrari up the order, talk about pressure to get into a top team ;)
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I think Kimi's really proving himself at the moment. Consistant top 5 finishes. Kovi just doesnt have that racing pace and I would be surprised not to see Kimi back at McLaren.
 
clv101 said:
In the last six races, up to and including Japan, this is how the points look:

35 Raikkonen
34 Hamilton
27 Barrichello
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This is very interesting. We all know that Hamilton has been doing well. In truth he should have an extra 6 points for his silly error at Monza, but Kimi is the guy who I am most surprised by. In effect, he is the in-form driver of the moment.
 
clv101 said:
Indeed, he took a lot of flack earlier in the season but this 2nd half (now that Massa's out of the picture?)
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This is a very interesting observation.

I used to think that Kimi is thick skinned and isn't worried about his team-mates. However, maybe, he is actually affected by pressure placed upon him by having a fast team-mate (Massa). Another factor might be that since Massa's removal, any development (what little has occurred) of the car has been focused on Kimi and no one else.
 
Mr Jack said:
... there's no way he's [Button] in the same league as Lewis, Alonso and Kimi. I'll be shocked if he ever wins a second championship.
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Yep. Agreed, (apart from Kimi part).

If Button doesnt win the title this year, then thats it for him. Alonso and Hamilton have a few WDCs in them.

Anyone disagree?
 
Wicksta said:
Aww stop it JRS, we already know by the times you 'left' the F1 threads here before that you'll be back almost immediately anyway. ;)

Stop being a drama king. :p
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In all seriousness Wicksta, your're the only one keeping me posting in these threads. I don't want to give you the satisfaction of me quitting for good :)

Though I wasn't actually talking about leaving the threads - merely giving it a rest with the pro-Ferrari cheer leading. It's only sheer bloody-mindedness that keeps me banging the Ferrari drum given how *immensely* popular said team is around here. Mind, with His Almighty Petulant Majesty The Great Fernando Teflonso™ joining for next year I expect we'll see a few more Ferrari fans join the fold. Maybe even sunama, since he rates Alonso so highly* :eek:

sunama said:
If Button doesnt win the title this year, then thats it for him. Alonso and Hamilton have a few WDCs in them.

Anyone disagree?
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sunama said:
Hopefully JRS will disagree. I need a good debate.
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Hate to disappoint bud, but I'm afraid I have to agree with you. Like Massa's '08 campaign, this is Button's best chance at a title. He doesn't have the raw talent of a Vettel or a Hamilton or an Alonso, and the Brawn team are starting next year back at the same level as everyone else with regards to car development. He's a great driver, no question (I know you don't agree with that). But this year is his best chance. Same goes for Barrichello as well. Which is what makes this title fight just a little bit exciting :)


***edit***

* - contrary to popular opinion, I rate him as well.
 
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