*** The 2013 Gym Rats Thread ***

[Freefaller]

There is certainly some merit to staying within a range, typically 10-15% bf. Cut to 10%, bulk until reaching 15%, rinse and repeat. I won't go into the myriad reasons here, but in essence, yes, you're not entirely wrong. That's definitely one way of doing it.

The problem is that getting down to 10-12% bf is NOT DIFFICULT. It can be done fairly quickly and does not require 18 months worth of dieting, as you've been doing. You're probably around about that sort of bf already, if you go for a standard caliper test (e.g. Durnin Womersley). All you're doing now is spinning your wheels, making minimal further progress on fat loss and more or less no progress on muscle gain.


A competitive bodybuilder may take a year to get down from 30-35% bf to stage-shredded. Getting from regular bf levels (15-20%) to 10% can be done in a matter of a few months, maybe even 2 months or less in some instances. Not 18 months.

Getting to a 10-12% BF is easy sure, we can all get there by starving ourselves. Getting to 10-12% and have a lot of muscle mass is certainly not easy. For people who don't care about BB'ing taking a year to knock off 6% BF whilst gaining/retaining muscle mass is a fantastic achievement.

Having had extensive bio-impedence and 10-point calliper tests over the years my weight has stayed around the same bar natural fluctuations, yet bodyfat slowly creeped down over the past 12-18 monts.

Also the difference in bodyfat from 10-15% is massive in appearance.

By all means throw comments out like "losing fat is easy" but losing fat whilst maintaining a good physique is not such a throw away task I'm afraid.

 

[RoboCod]

Also considering the same but my bench is still lol weak at 65kg

Keep at it. Bench just seemed to "come along" for me (not that I can lift an uber amount) but after struggling with 60-70kg for a while, I found with better technique, diet and patience I pushed beyond my body weight. I think we get too hung up on the figures, when all that matters is the answer to this - are you heading in the right direction with your physique, your ability and your goals?

 

[agnes]

Wow, good input guys, and yea. I asked for advice and the workout I got given on this forum is the above minus the ab workout and bench presses each time and 3x8.

So... Again, thanks for the input, I will lower it all to 8 and just increase weights

 

[BigPecsPeter]

By all means throw comments out like "losing fat is easy" but losing fat whilst maintaining a good physique is not such a throw away task I'm afraid.

No, you're quite right. I agree entirely. But when you don't have a good physique to begin with and have never properly bulked before, and your aim is to get your body fat down before bulking, then best to take a short term approach and get there as quick as possible. Dieting for 1 and a half years just in order to be able to begin your first bulk, is a bad plan in any world. Unless of course you're beginning at like 300 lbs or some other variety of morbid obesity!

 

[-Ad-]

No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.

I'll go back to my bicep curls......

 

[Skeptic]

Keep at it. Bench just seemed to "come along" for me (not that I can lift an uber amount) but after struggling with 60-70kg for a while, I found with better technique, diet and patience I pushed beyond my body weight. I think we get too hung up on the figures, when all that matters is the answer to this - are you heading in the right direction with your physique, your ability and your goals?

Progress is so slow it's hard to tell.

 

[Tenzo]

Getting to a 10-12% BF is easy sure, we can all get there by starving ourselves. Getting to 10-12% and have a lot of muscle mass is certainly not easy. For people who don't care about BB'ing taking a year to knock off 6% BF whilst gaining/retaining muscle mass is a fantastic achievement.

Having had extensive bio-impedence and 10-point calliper tests over the years my weight has stayed around the same bar natural fluctuations, yet bodyfat slowly creeped down over the past 12-18 monts.

Also the difference in bodyfat from 10-15% is massive in appearance.

By all means throw comments out like "losing fat is easy" but losing fat whilst maintaining a good physique is not such a throw away task I'm afraid.

Yeah, just to add - I was about 20% a little over three months ago. I've lost 8kg now but fml, my belly won't go and I've pretty much stalled on weight loss for three weeks. Done IF for most of that, now just eating at. 500 calorie deficit every day and training as hard as I can.

I measure my food religiously and use myfitnesspal to track.

So basically my point - losing weight, while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible, is not easy. Fact.

/wherearemycookiesbiatch

 

[icecold]

Wow, good input guys, and yea. I asked for advice and the workout I got given on this forum is the above minus the ab workout and bench presses each time and 3x8.

So... Again, thanks for the input, I will lower it all to 8 and just increase weights

lols facepalm.mp4

There is a reason you weren't told to do abs and bench every session, which is that it would be stupid.

What are you doing for your abs?

I'll go back to my bicep curls......

YES

 

[Jon33]

Funny old game this weightlifting...

I've been trying to increase the weight I can lift for 5 x 3.

On 10/07/13 I failed at 65kg with 4, 3, 2 reps.

On 16/07/13 I failed at 65kg with 5, 4, 3 reps.

Today (18/07/13) I thought I'd give it a try before squats and managed 5, 5, 6! How does that work!?

Log can be found here

 

[elmarko]

No, you're quite right. I agree entirely. But when you don't have a good physique to begin with and have never properly bulked before, and your aim is to get your body fat down before bulking, then best to take a short term approach and get there as quick as possible. Dieting for 1 and a half years just in order to be able to begin your first bulk, is a bad plan in any world. Unless of course you're beginning at like 300 lbs or some other variety of morbid obesity!

Haha, not quite that much - I was 225lb (so 59lb heavier) - as I said, too much beer for too many years & working in an office.

According to todays measurements I'm at 17% body-fat, @ 166lb, meaning I've got 27lb of fat & to get to 12% I'd need to shift... 10lb - leaving me at 71kg (ish), at my current rate 2 months (slow but steady over 18months 1lb a week, but LBM hasn't gone done according to measurements)

Once done, bulking phase 1 begins... (finally...)

Also, open quick question - how does this sound for a leg day?.

Main workout

Back Squats

Assistance

Front squats.
Good mornings
Walking lunges (with plates)

 

[RoboCod]

Funny old game this weightlifting...

I've been trying to increase the weight I can lift for 5 x 3.

On 10/07/13 I failed at 65kg with 4, 3, 2 reps.

On 16/07/13 I failed at 65kg with 5, 4, 3 reps.

Today (18/07/13) I thought I'd give it a try before squats and managed 5, 5, 6! How does that work!?

Log can be found here

Squats before everything, every time, forever more. Amen.

PS this is not advice.
PPS it is.
PPPS Phaggot.

 

[BigPecsPeter]

So basically my point - losing weight, while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible, is not easy. Fact.

No... It's not a fact. For starters, "easy"/"hard" are relative concepts. But if you're talking SCIENCE... It seems clear that maintenance of muscle is possible even if you decrease volume (i.e. number of sets) down to a 3rd of what it took to build the muscle to begin with, SO LONG AS you maintain intensity (i.e. the amount of weight lifted for a given rep range). EDIT: In older trainers, e.g. 55-75, a more frequent stimulus may prove necessary for maintenance of mass and myofiber size.

This maintenance principle also holds true in conditions of caloric deficits. Provided you consume adequate protein and have a suitable maintenance-oriented training schedule, you can lose fat with the most minimal of muscle loss. Whether or not it proves "easy" is merely a question of discipline, will-power and consistency. There's nothing "hard" about the science or the theory.

Which is not to ignore the point that, once you are talking about dieting in the single digit body fat ranges, things begin to get a little more complicated. Hormonal screw-ups can wreak all sorts of havoc on your efforts to get to super-duper shredded.

But for your average Joe gym-rat who's trying to diet from 20% to 10-12%, there are no particularly special training or dietary manipulations necessary to do it while avoiding muscle loss. Just the basic principles I outlined above.

The most serious goal-destroying adaptations to dieting and fat loss don't tend to occur when stopping short of the single digits.

If somebody is stalling at 12-14% or whatever, then it's time to reexamine your regimen. Not to go on ultra slow wheel-spinning miniscule deficit diets that take months and months, just in order to hit the modest accomplishment of 10-12%.

 

[Tenzo]

Of course there is nothing hard about the theory. That is mindblowingly obvious as anyone can sit on a PC and type it all out because frankly, that is easy.

What's hard is training at a deficit for a prolonged period of time. It is not easy, it takes willpower and dedication, just like most aspects of training.

What do you suggest for a stall at 14% then Peter?

 

[BigPecsPeter]

Of course there is nothing hard about the theory. That is mindblowingly obvious as anyone can sit on a PC and type it all out because frankly, that is easy.

What's hard is training at a deficit for a prolonged period of time. It is not easy, it takes willpower and dedication, just like most aspects of training.

What do you suggest for a stall at 14% then Peter?

As I recall, you lost 8 kg and then further losses, weight or fat, seemed to come to a crawl. You say you are on a daily deficit of 500kcal, but my gut feeling is that you may not be at all. I'm curious what your current body weight is and also what you have calculated as your maintenance calorie requirements.?

Please also tell me whether you feel tired and sluggish throughout the day usually or even frequently.

 

[Tenzo]

Ok. Weigh in at 88kg now, eating 2100 a day based on maintenance of 2600.

Not sure about the tiredness, I'd say no more than any normal guy who trains, works full time and has two kids.

 

[BigPecsPeter]

Ok. Weigh in at 88kg now, eating 2100 a day based on maintenance of 2600.

Not sure about the tiredness, I'd say no more than any normal guy who trains, works full time and has two kids.

I bodybugged somebody in a position broadly equivalent to yours (90kg, stalled) with interesting results. I want to post more and will later but I got to bloody get ready for work (. What are you height wise, around 6 feet? Also, which caliper formula are you relying on for fat % estimates#?

 

[tom_e]

Completely off topic but Elmarko if you're still doing your art for shelter I've stuck a request in the thread.

 

[elmarko]

Completely off topic but Elmarko if you're still doing your art for shelter I've stuck a request in the thread.

Arlite mate , missed the update.

I've got a bit of a backlog (had a load of requests from work in) - but yeah looking at that reference I'm sure I could do something.

Would you go for b&w or green coloured? (I'd have to order in some greens to do it), but I may need to order in more B&W pens anyway (already ordered a few a couple of days ago) - so would make little difference.

Been super busy after work recently & as they take 6+ hours each, hard to fit em in!.

 

[tom_e]

Arlite mate , missed the update.

I've got a bit of a backlog (had a load of requests from work in) - but yeah looking at that reference I'm sure I could do something.

Would you go for b&w or green coloured? (I'd have to order in some greens to do it), but I may need to order in more B&W pens anyway (already ordered a few a couple of days ago) - so would make little difference.

Been super busy after work recently & as they take 6+ hours each, hard to fit em in!.

No worries mate if you could do it in green that would be great, what about the 2 sons of anarchy reference pics are they doable?

 

[elmarko]

No worries mate if you could do it in green that would be great, what about the 2 sons of anarchy reference pics are they doable?

I'll have another look over my emails to double check, got about 40 emails at once so lost track totally lol (didn't expect that many!).