I have my momentsAnd I've been referred to as the patient one...
*** The 2014 Gym Rats Thread ***
- Thread starter mrthingyx
- Start date
I would ignore the 'you can't grow muscle and lose fat' brigade because it's largely theoretical and in practice, from personal experience, absolute rubbish. Maybe this does apply to professional body builders but for your average hard gainer I'm skeptical to buy into it.
I'm eating below my theoretical BMR on rest days and below my TDEE on training days, therefore running a huge calorie deficit but still partitioning my calories intelligently and getting 8-9 hours sleep. I'm seeing gradual improvements on some of my compounds and no difference in my top lifts otherwise - even more interesting given the mechanical disadvantages of leaning out.
What people actually mean is 'you can't bulk up significantly whilst losing fat'
I'm eating below my theoretical BMR on rest days and below my TDEE on training days, therefore running a huge calorie deficit but still partitioning my calories intelligently and getting 8-9 hours sleep. I'm seeing gradual improvements on some of my compounds and no difference in my top lifts otherwise - even more interesting given the mechanical disadvantages of leaning out.
What people actually mean is 'you can't bulk up significantly whilst losing fat'
I understand the difference between building muscle and gaining strength but some people seem to think on an aggressive cut you'll end up looking like Kyle from Road Trip.
If you're still increasing strength on a cut, if anything it is laying good foundations for the next lean-bulk.
OK I'm annoyed you're all taking the **** now
If anything I have discovered that a lot of 'science' is in fact irrelevant in practice. I don't like to make statements based on what I've read but what I've experienced. So I'm sorry I confused strength and muscle volume but - from my experience - I am on a cut and making gains. Sure this may be due to reduced training volume or who knows, but it's observation.
If anything I have discovered that a lot of 'science' is in fact irrelevant in practice. I don't like to make statements based on what I've read but what I've experienced. So I'm sorry I confused strength and muscle volume but - from my experience - I am on a cut and making gains. Sure this may be due to reduced training volume or who knows, but it's observation.
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If you cut aggressively, you will lose muscle. This can be mitigated by intelligent dieting and training, but you will still lose muscle.
You haven't discovered that at all.OK I'm annoyed you're all taking the **** now
If anything I have discovered that a lot of 'science' is in fact irrelevant in practice. I don't like to make statements based on what I've read but what I've experienced. So I'm sorry I confused strength and muscle volume but - from my experience - I am on a cut and making gains. Sure this may be due to reduced training volume or who knows, but it's observation.
You made observation that is in no way revolutionary. Gaining strength on a cut isn't that remarkable.
What you've actually discovered is that you didn't understand the science in the first place.
Indeed.
My point is that the accompanying muscle loss is not as pronounced as people make it out to be. Common sense would dictate there is a strong correlation between muscle size and strength therefore you aren't going to be making strength gains if your muscle mass is deteriorating in front of your very eyes.
I'm no scientist so perhaps you're right and I didn't really understand it in the first place. I guess I was describing my observations of making strength gains whilst on a cut, easily measurable, as opposed to changes in muscle mass, not as easily measurable.
Anyway play nice, there's no need to bring the same hostility in here that completely ruined the motors section a long time ago.
Soldato
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- 8 Sep 2003
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- 23,173
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- Was 150 yds from OCUK - now 0.5 mile; they moved
Well I joined the Gym last summer, did a couple of months, at 3 days a week.
From October - December I slowed to about once a week, really busy with work and personal commitments, during that time.
Anyway I'm back to 3-4 days a week now.
The plan for me is weight loss mainly with a little bit of muscle growth. I've never had much muscle strenght at all.
I used to be very skinny as a kid though, but as age came on, so did my beer belly.
This is my typical method at the gym.
I do 5 reps at a time.... on a machine, for example the shoulder press... i set it to 35kg and do 5.... stop and rest for 30seconds to a minute, then try to do 5 more.... I will prob do 5 again. rest again. then have another go... maybe only manage 4 that time... rest again.... then do 2 maybe the next time... the rest again. until i barely manage 1 rep, from muscle fatigue.
Then I have a 1-2 minute break and move to another machine to work a different muscle set... and rinse and repeat.
Do that for 20mins or so, then go to the treadmill and start off with 3.5km/ph at 10% incline for 3 mins, then increase it to 6km/ph at 12% for 30mins... then for the cool down do 2km/ph at 3% for 4-5mins.... then 1 min at 1km/ph with 0% incline.
From October - December I slowed to about once a week, really busy with work and personal commitments, during that time.
Anyway I'm back to 3-4 days a week now.
The plan for me is weight loss mainly with a little bit of muscle growth. I've never had much muscle strenght at all.
I used to be very skinny as a kid though, but as age came on, so did my beer belly.
This is my typical method at the gym.
I do 5 reps at a time.... on a machine, for example the shoulder press... i set it to 35kg and do 5.... stop and rest for 30seconds to a minute, then try to do 5 more.... I will prob do 5 again. rest again. then have another go... maybe only manage 4 that time... rest again.... then do 2 maybe the next time... the rest again. until i barely manage 1 rep, from muscle fatigue.
Then I have a 1-2 minute break and move to another machine to work a different muscle set... and rinse and repeat.
Do that for 20mins or so, then go to the treadmill and start off with 3.5km/ph at 10% incline for 3 mins, then increase it to 6km/ph at 12% for 30mins... then for the cool down do 2km/ph at 3% for 4-5mins.... then 1 min at 1km/ph with 0% incline.
The point I'm trying to make is that you are not in a position to assert the extent of muscle loss when cutting. Nobody is suggesting your muscles disappear, as long as you're sensible with your diet, but there are only limited situations where you can build muscle and lose fat. These do not include a situation where you are in a substantial deficit.
To go briefly into some training theory, and to expand on the futility of your n=1 science, there are numerous factors which effect strength progression. One of these is obviously muscle cross section. but within the same cross sectional size there can be huge variation in strength. These are largely dictated by neuromuscular factors, with some overlap into just learning how to do the movements more efficiently. This means that if you have never squatted before, but have large legs due to years of leg pressing, you could see your squat numbers progress steadily without any increase in muscle size. You could even lose some size and improve your squat, particularly if your training is strength orientated.
I'm not being hostile. I just don't like bad advice that could confuse people.
You would be well served to get yourself onto a proper weight routine. Structure is very important, not only for progress but for allowing you to stay motivated.
Soldato
- Joined
- 8 Sep 2003
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- 23,173
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- Was 150 yds from OCUK - now 0.5 mile; they moved
I don't know where to start with a "proper routine" though, help and advice much welcomed
I'm soon to be starting a exercise routine after having my tummy tuck (7 weeks post op now) and have looked over Steedies guide it's looks great and will be using it for sure but how much do I start out lifting? I might of missed sorry 
Thanks
Thanks
I don't know where to start with a "proper routine" though, help and advice much welcomed
Do stronglifts. It's simple and easy enough to follow and there's even an app for you to track progress. Don't fall off this time!