** The AMD Navi Thread **

[Grim5]

I agree with a lot of the points made here
https://gizmodo.com/a-nerdy-theory-about-why-ps5-and-project-scarlett-arent-1835390270

The last reason, number 5 is really the only valid one.

Both consoles are HDMI 2.1 and use HDMI forum VRR and Navi as of 2019 doesn't support it either of these.

RDNA is still a work in progress and the current performance per watt is not close to what Sony and MS want for their next consoles.

Next gen is 2020, because simply put, AMD isn't ready to give the market what it wants

 

[D.P.]

For one AMDs name is all over the biggest gaming event each year that console players tune in to E3

I fully understand you here for the defence of nvidia but its in plain sight what is happening here and its coming across as damage control from yourself.

Forget about nvidia none of that matters, it's only a matter of time till amd drops ray tracing to the mainstream.

Again about Ray tracing you simply trying your best to hide the fact it's coming by saying console will only do audio lol
DP get of the high horse, keeping these posts for the big navi 20 reveal.

I agree with a lot of the points made here
https://gizmodo.com/a-nerdy-theory-about-why-ps5-and-project-scarlett-arent-1835390270

If there is anyone doing damage control for their beloved company it is use, and is always you.

I am here just pointing out the patently obvious. People with a bias often refuse to lsiten, but time and time again my statements are shown to be accurate. Every GPU launch it is the same.

 

[D.P.]

since you cant be bothered, heres a shorter one:
Simply put: it’s just not worth making denser chips, and it’s getting increasingly difficult to do so. The steps required to manufacture chips have increased in quantity and complexity due to how gigantic the wavelengths of light are in comparison to the transistors they are outlining. Taking 193nm wavelengths down to 7nm requires a lot of clever trickery to work – GloFo CTO, Gary Patton, even went as far to call 7nm immersion lithography an “extreme sport” in an interview with IEEE Spectrum.
In turn, this increases time and money spent on every single product leaving a fab. Not only that, but the more complex a manufacturing process, the higher chance there is of something going wrong, and subsequently, the lower a fab’s yields will be. As you can imagine, that’s not too great when you plan on mass producing an entire CPU architecture for the immensely large computing market, and without angering shareholders.


you are both missing the important part of making the cips out which is why you both seem to be under the impression its cheaper and easier.

Indeed, new smalelr processes used to mean cheaper dies because they could be made much smaller and the increase in costs was moderate.

That stopped being true a long time ago. Each new process shrink is tripling production and R&D costs, but the gains seen each generation are getting much smaller. Especially in regards to pure performance. It used to be jumping down a node would give a 50% clock speed increase with barely nay changes to the architecture, allowing for intel's tick-tock model. Now you might get a 20% clock boost, with a lot of work and a lot of caveats, at a massive price increase.


The focus of TSMC and samsung is also icnreasingly geared to small dies for mobile. many of them just don;t work well for big CPU or GPU dies. hence some nodes liek 22nm and 10nm were skipped. Nvidia are skippign the first 7nm version as costs are massive and gains are small. ironically the next 7nm+ EUV processes will actually lower costs and potentially give a a grater performance increase from current DUV7nm to EUV 7nm+ than from 14nm to DUV7nm.

 

[shankly1985]

If there is anyone doing damage control for their beloved company it is use, and is always you.

I am here just pointing out the patently obvious. People with a bias often refuse to lsiten, but time and time again my statements are shown to be accurate. Every GPU launch it is the same.

Not at all I just see the bigger picture.

Am sure we will come back to these posts soon enough

 

[RavenXXX2]

Nvidia taking the **** out of navi.

 

[Poneros]

Re-installing FC5 to compare numbers.

Got 94 avg, OC V64 vs their 84 avg on the 5700. Also with a puny 4ghz 6800k unlike their ryzen 2700x.

Tldr the 5700 xt is gonna be 10% faster once OCed? And they want to sell it for £450+? Lulz

There's gonna be a raid on those £350 v64 nitros.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

That's the issue. People were hoping AMD would bring some sense back to GPU pricing much like Ryzen gave Intel a shakeup. We wanted 2070 performance for ~£350, essentially a V64 with lower power draw/heat with modern bells and whistles. Instead they've given us comparable/slightly better performance than a 2070 for the same money that is worse price/performance than their current Vega deals and the 2060's already available. So we're all still stuck with high GPU prices and this is the new norm. Enjoy.

If the benchmarks hold weight across the board (not saying they will), then the $380 Navi 5700 may match the 2070, especially as drivers mature.

 

[Martini1991]

Not at all I just see the bigger picture.

Am sure we will come back to these posts soon enough

You've been full on AMD defense mode since Navi reveal.

You've compared it to Zen 1 for Christ sake. When it's not even close to that.

There's no bigger picture. All we've got is a good performance mid tier card at a poor price point. The same poor price points that have seen Turing get hammered.

If Navi comes out and it's 2080 beating performance, that has absolutely no bearing on the current situation as card releases are taken in isolation at the time of launch.

 

[Kirby Wurm]

Already happened

Full disclosure, I've not played it yet (given December 2019 release lol), but it looks cracking IMO.

https://www.gog.com/game/descent_2019

Ah, fantastic! Now we just need a new Conflict: Freespace!

 

[Besty]

Who exactly is the 5700XT aimed at?

it is a necessary step in order to get volume going on 7nm products.

The real goal is to get these chips into laptops and set-top boxes at volume then prices will come down

The early chips are always more expensive.

Nvidia taking the **** out of navi.

Oh the irony.

Nvidia needs to focus on not ripping off its customer base.

Fine, do a product comparison but Nvidia have as much chance as me upgrading all my 1080/ti based gear for new 2080/ti based hardware as Birmingham City winning the champions league.

Who is Navi aimed at? it is aimed at people like myself who bought a custom 1080ti for £800 and will not pay £1600 for the like for like upgrade. Same for all my other gear, Nvidia have lost their minds.

Don’t mind if the AMD Navi desktop parts are a little hotter, the 2080ti is not exactly fuel efficient.

 

[Grim5]

the 2080ti is not exactly fuel efficient.

Ironic, considering it has the best performance per watt on any gpu for sale today, doesn’t that make it the most fuel efficient?

 

[LeMson]

Who is Navi aimed at? it is aimed at people like myself who bought a custom 1080ti for £800 and will not pay £1600 for the like for like upgrade. Same for all my other gear, Nvidia have lost their minds.

Navi would be a side/downgrade grade for you as a 1080ti owner O_o

 

[Besty]

Ironic, considering it has the best performance per watt on any gpu for sale today, doesn’t that make it the most fuel efficient?

The market has shifted since 2011, although I still run a liquid-cooled rig, the market has shifted to mobile gaming and consoles - including my own habits. Every GPU i run is an Nvidia GPU. Including my shield, I have 7 of them.

It is ironic because even though the AMD will be hotter than the Nvidia chips, the 7nm AMD CPU will even up the total system power draw, the Nvidia slides do not account for this.

It is useless to me if can't run one (2080 desktop GPU) inside an upgraded Alienware laptop, with an Intel CPU, without it looking like a scene out of Superman 3 when the chemical factory melts through the floor.

We have a real problem of cost and heat getting totally out of hand, Intel and Nvidia have been asleep at the wheel AMD is providing a welcome wake-up call. I really want to see a complete 7nm AMD system and see what it can do.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Navi is a huge 1080ti downgrade.

 

[Phate]

I really want to see a complete 7nm AMD system and see what it can do.

My plan is, subject to review, to build a 7nm rig, 3900x with R7900XT

I bet I am not the only one on the forum either.

 

[bigmike20vt]

it is a necessary step in order to get volume going on 7nm products.

The real goal is to get these chips into laptops and set-top boxes at volume then prices will come down

The early chips are always more expensive.


Oh the irony.

Nvidia needs to focus on not ripping off its customer base.

Fine, do a product comparison but Nvidia have as much chance as me upgrading all my 1080/ti based gear for new 2080/ti based hardware as Birmingham City winning the champions league.

Who is Navi aimed at? it is aimed at people like myself who bought a custom 1080ti for £800 and will not pay £1600 for the like for like upgrade. Same for all my other gear, Nvidia have lost their minds.

Don’t mind if the AMD Navi desktop parts are a little hotter, the 2080ti is not exactly fuel efficient.

I don't get this at all. The angst at Nvidia and their prices fair enough.... But to me it looks like AMD are offering equivalent cards to NV mid range at a similar price but with fewer features.. and that is BEFORE the coming price cuts and the super cards which look to raise the bar esp the SUPER RTX 2060 which I think could be a really nice card.
To me AMD are pricing just as bad as NV but with fewer features and 6-9 months later.
At least NV are looking to bring in new features.
As for replacing your 1080ti with a Navi... No offence intended but are you mad?

By the time AMD get their next Navi cards out after these NV will surely be onto the RTX 2nd generation which if 7nm could be proper decent cards I hope. I would love the red team to tpt me but it looks to me they do not have the feature set OR the cost to get back the mindshare

 

[sparkymark75]

I don't get this at all. The angst at Nvidia and their prices fair enough.... But to me it looks like AMD are offering equivalent cards to NV mid range at a similar price but with fewer features.. and that is BEFORE the coming price cuts and the super cards which look to raise the bar esp the SUPER RTX 2060 which I think could be a really nice card.
To me AMD are pricing just as bad as NV but with fewer features and 6-9 months later.
At least NV are looking to bring in new features.
As for replacing your 1080ti with a Navi... No offence intended but are you mad?

nVidia have introduced DLSS and Ray Tracing. AMD are introducing Anti-Lag and Fidelity FX.

Whether any of those features are worthwhile on either card is up to you to decide and depends on what games you play. FPS palyers may prefer the Anti-Lag feature. Players that typically play more single player campaigns, may prefer DLSS or Ray Tracing.

 

[Besty]

Navi would be a side/downgrade grade for you as a 1080ti owner O_o

sure, it may be now but you have to look at things in a longer perspective, as long as AMD stick to their delivery roadmap they will have a total system upgrade with 7nm parts ready for me to choose from by this time next year.

Alienware Laptop and custom Desktop.

I will not be buying a £1,200-£1,600 GPU i abjectly refuse to do so.

This mess with the 9900k and 2080ti is what no competition gets you into. Hot, expensive turkeys.

 

[bigmike20vt]

nVidia have introduced DLSS and Ray Tracing. AMD are introducing Anti-Lag and Fidelity FX.

Whether any of those features are worthwhile on either card is up to you to decide and depends on what games you play. FPS palyers may prefer the Anti-Lag feature. Players that typically play more single player campaigns, may prefer DLSS or Ray Tracing.

I am probably wrong here but isn't fast sync nvidias anti lag feature which has been working for a couple of years in Maxwell and later?.

You are correct however I do have a bias (we all do) not against AMD but I am almost a pure single player / PvE coop player so don't really worry about things to give a competitive edge.

BTW again I must be wrong but I thought AMD had stated Navi would support hardware raytracing?

 

[Grim5]

BTW again I must be wrong but I thought AMD had stated Navi would support hardware raytracing?

Navi in 2019 does not have ray tracing...but Sony and Microsoft are helping to pay and design with AMD to build it in for 2020.

Navi in 2019 is actually a "**** guys we need to get something out the door so we can make better margins" product.

AMD said it themselves at the conference, RDNA is incomplete. RDNA shipping in Navi is a work in progress and the real Navi isn't until Q3/Q4 2020 inside the next gen consoles and desktops