** The AMD Navi Thread **

[Martini1991]

Only costs more in comparison to the EOL cost, release is literally the same and the 64 was more expensive than the XT will be (sans EOL pricing).

Granted but Navi 5700XT isn't what Vega 64 is. It's moot.
It's not the flagship part and lacks HBM it does not command the price.
And the original rebate price puts 5700XT almost equal.

Again, If you want to put a positive spin on it then you should be positive about Nvidias as well

 

[Martini1991]

Yeah 10% is about right, what price do you think the 5700 and 5700X should be?

The pricing isn't exclusive to AMDs parts.

The 5700XT is a Polaris replacement and should be priced as such.

Same goes for Nvidia and their parts.

Given AMD literally banged on about AMD Rebellion with $200 cards because that's the main purchase point and why we got the 480 it's ludicrous they've now doubled it.

 

[humbug]

The pricing isn't exclusive to AMDs parts.

The 5700XT is a Polaris replacement and should be priced as such.

Same goes for Nvidia and their parts.

Given AMD literally banged on about AMD Rebellion with $200 cards because that's the main purchase point and why we got the 480 it's ludicrous they've now doubled it.

Polaris launch price?

Both the RX 480 and 580 Launched at $230.

Are you sure? they had GDDR5 vs GDDR6 which is more expensive and a similar price on 14nm vs 7nm which costs 2X as much per wafer and is less mature than 14nm was.

And they are 2X the performance.

 

[Martini1991]

Polaris launch price?

Both the RX 480 and 580 Launched at $230.

Are you sure? they had GDDR5 vs GDDR6 which is more expensive and a similar price on 14nm vs 7nm which costs 2X as much per wafer and is less mature than 14nm was.

We can increase price somewhat I guess, but they're meant to be the highest selling parts. That's the target audience those who buy in the ~$300 region.

AMD are the ones who said that's where 90% of buyers are.

I'd have said $250 for 5700 and $300 for 5700XT.

At the end of the day for mid tier parts they're very good performance. They're just priced at a tier they're not.

If we start accepting more money for more performance then all we do is keep increasing the entry pricing.

 

[robfosters]

The Sapphire 580 was £240 at OCUK.

 

[ltron]

AMD are gonna have a good couple of years with their CPU line then Intel are gonna come back *strong* (with a few underhand practises too!), they better make it count!

Exactly, this is the only way we can have two companies competing on a roughly equal footing. It's still a David and Goliath battle and will take quite some time to change that, if Intel manage to respond quickly it would merely reinstate the bad years of 2011-17.

 

[humbug]

We can increase price somewhat I guess, but they're meant to be the highest selling parts. That's the target audience those who buy in the ~$300 region.

AMD are the ones who said that's where 90% of buyers are.

I'd have said $250 for 5700 and $300 for 5700XT.

At the end of the day for mid tier parts they're very good performance. They're just priced at a tier they're not.

If we start accepting more money for more performance then all we do is keep increasing the entry pricing.

Ok, i think its fair what you're saying but i also think the margins on that would be low.

I want AMD to make good GPU's at a nice price but i also want them to make enough money for R&D so they can continue making their GPU's better. There must be a happy place in there somewhere.

 

[Martini1991]

Ok, i think its fair what you're saying but i also think the margins on that would be low.

I want AMD to make good GPU's are a nice price but i also want them to make enough money for R&D so they can continue making their GPU's better. There must be a happy place in there somewhere.

End of the day AMD are the ones who put out that 90% of sales are in X dollar segment. They're the ones who made that target and then made the big deal about it when releasing Polaris.

Navi is a Polaris replacement.

Yes there's a happy medium, but the current crop of GPU's aren't it and people are being mighty hypocritical as they give Nvidia a hard time and AMD a free pass

 

[humbug]

End of the day AMD are the ones who put out that 90% of sales are in X dollar segment.

They did, yes.

 

[JediFragger]

There must be a happy place in there somewhere.

Agreed, we need them to be profitable but when you're out-margining even nVidia then I think they've gone too far imo.

 

[humbug]

Agreed, we need them to be profitable but when you're out-margining even nVidia then I think they've gone too far imo.

Yeah you're both right.

 

[Satchfanuk]

Agreed, we need them to be profitable but when you're out-margining even nVidia then I think they've gone too far imo.

How do you know AMD are 'out-margining even nVidia' with 5700/XT pricing?

We have no idea what it is costing AMD to produce these GPUs, therefore can't possibly know what their margins are, unless you have a source to share with us?

 

[JediFragger]

Yeah you're both right.

But at least they'll have some room to manuvoure so that's good. Just wonder what the AiB cards are gonna come in at!!

Nitro though will be epic

 

[JediFragger]

How do you know AMD are 'out-margining even nVidia' with 5700/XT pricing?

We have no idea what it is costing AMD to produce these GPUs, therefore can't possibly know what their margins are, unless you have a source to share with us?

Yeah their was someone who did it on a YT vid a few weeks back using an online 'silicon calculator' that takes yields/process/ram etc into consideration and was shown AMD was going to be making big bucks on these (in comparison to the past). Cba to find it, you go if you want but am sure someone can confirm (pretty sure it was in this thread).

 

[Troezar]

How do you know AMD are 'out-margining even nVidia' with 5700/XT pricing?

We have no idea what it is costing AMD to produce these GPUs, therefore can't possibly know what their margins are, unless you have a source to share with us?

Good point, very few people will be privy to that information. The caveat is that all the discussion on here is just guesswork. It's fun to speculate though, let's not forget that's why we're all here

 

[humbug]

But at least they'll have some room to manuvoure so that's good. Just wonder what the AiB cards are gonna come in at!!

Nitro though will be epic

If in AIB form they come down in price a lot early next year i'm probably going to buy one, i've been with nVidia for 4 years now, no real complaints they served me well but i fancy going back to AMD.

 

[Satchfanuk]

Yeah their was someone who did it on a YT vid a few weeks back using an online 'silicon calculator' that takes yields/process/ram etc into consideration and was shown AMD was going to be making big bucks on these (in comparison to the past). Cba to find it, you go if you want but am sure someone can confirm (pretty sure it was in this thread).

AFAIK, nobody outside of AMD knows what they pay TSMC for a 7nm wafer, nor do we know what yields they are getting on those wafers (I don't recall seeing any figures published). RAM might be the only thing we can hazard a guess at, price wise, the rest is pure speculation. AMD could be getting anywhere from 0-100% out of each wafer which would change the maths entirely

 

[Satchfanuk]

Good point, very few people will be privy to that information. The caveat is that all the discussion on here is just guesswork. It's fun to speculate though, let's not forget that's why we're all here

Using words like 'when' and not 'if' to describe the margins AMD or anyone else is making on a product is not speculating though, that is stating it as a 'fact'.

 

[JediFragger]

AFAIK, nobody outside of AMD knows what they pay TSMC for a 7nm wafer, nor do we know what yields they are getting on those wafers (I don't recall seeing any figures published). RAM might be the only thing we can hazard a guess at, price wise, the rest is pure speculation. AMD could be getting anywhere from 0-100% out of each wafer which would change the maths entirely

Tbf I did wonder myself at the time, and also read that 7nm wasn't a cheap process. Maybe I took what they said as gospel a little too much.

 

[JediFragger]

If in AIB form they come down in price a lot early next year i'm probably going to buy one, i've been with nVidia for 4 years now, no real complaints they served me well but i fancy going back to AMD.

Who am I kidding, I'll probably get one at launch!

Might even go for the dented blower if they prove to have gotten noise somewhat under control...

RTX just isn't interesting me at this gen (had 2080Ti, made for 4k that card anything lower gets a bit of a bottleneck), 7nm shrink might prove different.