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waiting for prices to settle with the release of the AIB cards
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** The AMD Navi Thread **
- Thread starter subbytna
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waiting for prices to settle with the release of the AIB cards
Soldato
AIB cards will be more expensive than the reference cards. Prices have already settled, unless you're expecting Nvidia to drop the prices of the Supers and AMD to drop again, which won't happen until Christmas if at all.
Soldato
I expect they'll reintroduce some games bundle first.
I dunno, I like the idea of RTX in some ways, I like anything that is designed to take the market forward in one way or another but really RTX isn't "RTX" is it, It has always felt to me like NV's way of claiming a technology that's been around for a decade or more. RTX is simply NV's implementation of DXR as it is in the DirectX 12 API, aside from de-noising etc it's really nothing that groundbreaking. To me DLSS is actually a more impressive tech but sadly I think that still needs quite a lot of work as well. The NV marketing machine knows exactly what they are doing though and it's impressive from that perspective and also the perspective of that marketing bringing ray tracing more into the mainstream.
From my perspective and with what I do for work and play, AMD just makes more sense for my requirements at this time, or at least it does with the compute focus side of Vega and good/ constantly improving support in Linux since AMD drivers are open source. My 16gb vram buffer plus pro driver support on Radeon7 for some things makes it almost my perfect card at this point in time, mainly due to the fact I can't rightly justify the cost of a equivalent instinct product to be honest. The fact that I can then boot it into windows and frag noobs until my heart is content at 1440p and slower games @4k makes me very happy indeed. The trade off then, and the question I ask myself is would I trade the above for a card where my gaming performance is as good as it could be but where I take bigger hits in my more compute heavy workloads, or in fact where I have to mess around a lot more to make it work in something I'm not massively familiar with? I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer but for me I have fun with my mates gaming and don't feel like im missing out on anything in particular hence the radeon 7, for others where they have a gaming or cuda focus then there may well be a very different answer
That's why Navi to me fells odd, it's akin to going for a more NV product and losing out on some of the reasons I am using what I am using 
Soldato
The radeon 7 although I got rid, was a bloody brilliant card, truly fun and tinkerable it had a soul, the nv card does not, it just does its job with an arrogant smile and nothing moreI dunno, I like the idea of RTX in some ways, I like anything that is designed to take the market forward in one way or another but really RTX isn't "RTX" is it, It has always felt to me like NV's way of claiming a technology that's been around for a decade or more. RTX is simply NV's implementation of DXR as it is in the DirectX 12 API, aside from de-noising etc it's really nothing that groundbreaking. To me DLSS is actually a more impressive tech but sadly I think that still needs quite a lot of work as well. The NV marketing machine knows exactly what they are doing though and it's impressive from that perspective and also the perspective of that marketing bringing ray tracing more into the mainstream.
From my perspective and with what I do for work and play, AMD just makes more sense for my requirements at this time, or at least it does with the compute focus side of Vega and good/ constantly improving support in Linux since AMD drivers are open source. My 16gb vram buffer plus pro driver support on Radeon7 for some things makes it almost my perfect card at this point in time, mainly due to the fact I can't rightly justify the cost of a equivalent instinct product to be honest. The fact that I can then boot it into windows and frag noobs until my heart is content at 1440p and slower games @4k makes me very happy indeed. The trade off then, and the question I ask myself is would I trade the above for a card where my gaming performance is as good as it could be but where I take bigger hits in my more compute heavy workloads, or in fact where I have to mess around a lot more to make it work in something I'm not massively familiar with? I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer but for me I have fun with my mates gaming and don't feel like im missing out on anything in particular hence the radeon 7, for others where they have a gaming or cuda focus then there may well be a very different answer
It's Vega on roids is all it is. No more no less. I really hope that they continue with cards that cater to the gamer/creator/dev like Vega does and I hope we haven't seen the end of Vega like products. For all the criticism they get for their gaming performance vs pascal/volta/turing they do cater to some particular niches incredibly well. I have no doubt that Navi, especially big Navi will push forward a good chunk in gaming workloads vs polaris and that is a good thing as even polaris had some fairly decent compute which perhaps it doesn't need in that segment, mind you imo there was always room for a monster polaris but we never really got that.
You are the exact target audience of the VII. From what you describe it is perfect for you. I completely agree about the open source Linux drivers built into the kernel tool. It's the reason I got a Vega 64 previously. It's fantastic never having to install drivers.From my perspective and with what I do for work and play, AMD just makes more sense for my requirements at this time, or at least it does with the compute focus side of Vega and good/ constantly improving support in Linux since AMD drivers are open source. My 16gb vram buffer plus pro driver support on Radeon7 for some things makes it almost my perfect card at this point in time, mainly due to the fact I can't rightly justify the cost of a equivalent instinct product to be honest. The fact that I can then boot it into windows and frag noobs until my heart is content at 1440p and slower games @4k makes me very happy indeed. The trade off then, and the question I ask myself is would I trade the above for a card where my gaming performance is as good as it could be but where I take bigger hits in my more compute heavy workloads, or in fact where I have to mess around a lot more to make it work in something I'm not massively familiar with? I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer but for me I have fun with my mates gaming and don't feel like im missing out on anything in particular hence the radeon 7, for others where they have a gaming or cuda focus then there may well be a very different answer
I don't think we will see the likes of the VII again anytime soon. But it could be that unicorn card which people hunt out in a few years once they have become trivially priced on the used market. Another point often overlooked is that it is the strongest card compatible with MacOS. People still use the old Mac Pro 5.1 and drop Vega's into them for a budget dual processor graphics workstation, or use them in hackintoshes and MBP/Mac Mini eGPU's. Vega's are the only cards compatible out of the box with Windows, Linux and MacOS and the VII is the top of that line. It should be reasonably future proof with the huge 16gb and extremely high bandwidth and appears to be able to play games in 4k at acceptable frame rates right now.
I have one sitting in my other room waiting to either be installed (and my Vega 64 would go to my son) or possibly returned. But each way I look at it, it just seems a genuinely interesting card to handle pretty much all workloads and games across any OS. I think it's a pretty special card even if it's not the fastest and not good value as a pure gamer. It's an amazingly heavy card too. It feels like a steel girder
Edit: There is some suspicion that the heatsink shroud reduces the cooling efficiency in the name of making it look good. I suspect an aftermarket cooler would make it far quieter.
You are the exact target audience of the VII. From what you describe it is perfect for you. I completely agree about the open source Linux drivers built into the kernel tool. It's the reason I got a Vega 64 previously. It's fantastic never having to install drivers.
I don't think we will see the likes of the VII again anytime soon. But it could be that unicorn card which people hunt out in a few years once they have become trivially priced on the used market. Another point often overlooked is that it is the strongest card compatible with MacOS. People still use the old Mac Pro 5.1 and drop Vega's into them for a budget dual processor graphics workstation, or use them in hackintoshes and MBP/Mac Mini eGPU's. Vega's are the only cards compatible out of the box with Windows, Linux and MacOS and the VII is the top of that line. It should be reasonably future proof with the huge 16gb and extremely high bandwidth and appears to be able to play games in 4k at acceptable frame rates right now.
I have one sitting in my other room waiting to either be installed (and my Vega 64 would go to my son) or possibly returned. But each way I look at it, it just seems a genuinely interesting card to handle pretty much all workloads and games across any OS. I think it's a pretty special card even if it's not the fastest and not good value as a pure gamer. It's an amazingly heavy card too. It feels like a steel girder
Edit: There is some suspicion that the heatsink shroud reduces the cooling efficiency in the name of making it look good. I suspect an aftermarket cooler would make it far quieter.
I guess I am really, they had me when I knew they were releasing it tbh. I think you should open the box and install the card and let your son, who you know damn well deserves this upgrade, have the v64. You could wind him up a bit longer but don't you think you have left him hanging enough?
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Is the best one the 5700XT?.
Caporegime
5700XT anniversary edition
His build is for his birthday in September so he's not expecting it yet. That said I probably will finish his build soon (waiting for new Ryzens tomorrow) and I am considering giving it to him early so he can enjoy it through the school holidays.
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Thank you now I no what to look out for. Buying a new bundle PC with overclockers with new AMD CPU as well. I think my last card from (AMD) was Radeon 5700 hehe. Best card ive had with no problems. Jumping ship from Nvidia this time.
Is XT like the TI version of Nvidia?.
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Caporegime
The anniversary edition isn't worth the extra, too close to the 2070S.
You don't want the anniversary edition. It's just slightly overclocked and has a signature on it.
You can do the overclocking yourself, and sign it if you really want.
It's supposed to be some kind of collector's edition, but who collects graphics cards.
Soldato
This is the best I could get with my VEGA 64 and i7 8700k
This is an old run mind you so it might be better now maybe I should reinstall before "I buy XT" This leaked run has 98fps and 86 min that is a nice boost tbh over VEGA 64. The leak also falls quite well with my results so this looks to be the real deal.
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/radeon-rx-5700-series-review-leaks-out-at-polish-website.html
Edit
My Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark results I get AVG 65 fps and min 50 FPS
The leak above the XT gets 77fps avg and 62 min fps
This also falls in line with the leak above VEGA results also.
Again that is a decent boost.
This is an old run mind you so it might be better now maybe I should reinstall before "I buy XT" This leaked run has 98fps and 86 min that is a nice boost tbh over VEGA 64. The leak also falls quite well with my results so this looks to be the real deal.
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/radeon-rx-5700-series-review-leaks-out-at-polish-website.html
Edit
My Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark results I get AVG 65 fps and min 50 FPS
The leak above the XT gets 77fps avg and 62 min fps
This also falls in line with the leak above VEGA results also.
Again that is a decent boost.
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So, dare I ask. Is anyone planning on picking up a 5700 or one of its variants? Subject to testing? On release?
I'll be buying a card around September time, gotta wait for a water lock release from EK first.
I will be buying one, I need the grunt and it seems these gpus tackle the issues thats been plaguing AMD cards for awhile now when it comes to games that favour Nvidia.
Normally I would wait on the AIB cards but im gonna assume the AIB cards will be more expensive to the point where if after market gpu heat sinks fit this like the Morpheus, I rather go that route, I have spare ncotua fans, so really at the same price point more then likely, i can get a better cooling solution hopefully.
Bits'n'chips mentioned that Zen 2's yields are now over 85% and they also mention that 7nm wafers are 'under' $10,000:
https://www.bitsandchips.it/english-news/11925-zen-2-yields-over-85-tsmc-is-doing-a-very-good-job
Taking all of that and some (admittedly rather vague) claims of 14nm wafers being around $4,400 around the Polaris launch at assuming similar yields (but I believe TSMC have said that 7nm yields are actually better than their 16/14nm ones were), I got something like this:
So yes, compared to Polaris the Navi die costs AMD more but for the whole card, it's likely to be a lot cheaper than Vega.
Since they have already paid all the fixed costs (although Sony and Microsoft likely paid some of it too), I still think that they'd really should try to maximize volumes especially before Nvidia come out with an 7nm design which is likely to significantly beat them in perf/watt.
https://www.bitsandchips.it/english-news/11925-zen-2-yields-over-85-tsmc-is-doing-a-very-good-job
Taking all of that and some (admittedly rather vague) claims of 14nm wafers being around $4,400 around the Polaris launch at assuming similar yields (but I believe TSMC have said that 7nm yields are actually better than their 16/14nm ones were), I got something like this:
So yes, compared to Polaris the Navi die costs AMD more but for the whole card, it's likely to be a lot cheaper than Vega.
Since they have already paid all the fixed costs (although Sony and Microsoft likely paid some of it too), I still think that they'd really should try to maximize volumes especially before Nvidia come out with an 7nm design which is likely to significantly beat them in perf/watt.
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1070 strix user here gaming at 1440.
The 5700XT looks tempting if the price is right. Had a few issues with Nvidia and Windows 10 lately, Banding etc.
Maybe it's time for a change
The 5700XT looks tempting if the price is right. Had a few issues with Nvidia and Windows 10 lately, Banding etc.
Maybe it's time for a change