** The AMD Navi Thread **

[Martini1991]

Nope it wasn't 25% cheaper, it was equal performance at equal price which I also mentioned and people still slated it.

Of course its going to get slated.
No one cares for late parity products. Vega VII was the best AMD could do and it was parity with Nvidias second tier product.

 

[Martini1991]

The 580 has generally been around 25% cheaper than the 6gb 1060 post mining and the 570 (10-15% slower depending on game) is about 25% cheaper than the 580

Vega 56 is 8% faster than the 1660ti while price matching and it near enough matches the 2060 while being around 20% cheaper.

You're cherry picking circumstances when the context is at launch.

The 580 launch for example was a rebrand of the 480 bringing a higher price point to the same performance of which we'd already seen before with the 390X rebrand.

Vega 56 at launch was like 1080 money too, while coming in late.

 

[Martini1991]

4870 $299 launch price vs nVidia GTX 260 at $399. Matched the GTX260, nVidia had to respond with huge price drops on it's cards.

But that was like 10 years ago now.

Well that's the point isn't it.
People are talking about launch conditions that haven't been relevant for years.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

Of course its going to get slated.
No one cares for late parity products. Vega VII was the best AMD could do and it was parity with Nvidias second tier product.

So you're saying they HAVE to match top tier or they should get slated?

 

[Martini1991]

So you're saying they HAVE to match top tier or they should get slated?

Parity with a second tier product while coming in later is nothing to get excited about.

Agree or disagree?

 

[Sargatanas2511]

Parity with a second tier product while coming in later is nothing to get excited about.

Agree or disagree?

It's competition that wasn't there, so I am very happy for it to appear. Seems like a good card overall, if a little power hungry.

 

[Martini1991]

It's competition that wasn't there, so I am very happy for it to appear. Seems like a good card overall, if a little power hungry.

Parity performance at parity price at a later date isn't competition.
If I find the 2080 price/performance unacceptable I'm going to find the same for the Radeon.

I've no allegiance to any vendor. But it's obvious why it's been slated. I'd do the same if the tables were changed.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

Parity isn't competition.
If I find the 2080 price/performance unacceptable I'm going to find the same for the Radeon.

So going from the choice of one card for £700, or 2 cards with 2 different software sets and positives/negatives is not competition?

I completely agree the 2080 and R7 are expensive, probably too expensive but that's what a lack of competition does. AMD saw an opportunity and took it.

 

[Martini1991]

So going from the choice of one card for £700, or 2 cards with 2 different software sets and positives/negatives is not competition?

I completely agree the 2080 and R7 are expensive, probably too expensive but that's what a lack of competition does. AMD saw an opportunity and took it.

If we're going down the software side from a gamers point of view what does AMD offer unique? Nvidia have gsync (Only relevant if you've got a gsync monitor) and ray tracing.

AMD's freesync is available for Nvidia so it's no longer a USP

 

[TNA]

4870 $299 launch price vs nVidia GTX 260 at $399. Matched the GTX260, nVidia had to respond with huge price drops on it's cards.

But that was like 10 years ago now.

Haha. Seems I was right with my guess when I said about 10 years ago

The 4870 was such a great card. I got it for £200 and it was better than a 8800 GTX which up until around then cost over double as I recall.

Loved AMD cards and had them nearly exclusively for a decade myself. They always offered great price for performance. That has not been the case for a long time in my opinion. Hopefully that changes soon.

 

[D.P.]

Of course its going to get slated.
No one cares for late parity products. Vega VII was the best AMD could do and it was parity with Nvidias second tier product.

Not only that, but they needed to use a 7nm node to get there and purportedly make no profit on each one sold. Worse stillis the insnane pwoer concumption despite using 7nm and supposedly efficient HBM2.

As soon as nvidia switch to 7nm then they will also enjoy the instant 30% performance gains without lifting a finger. instead Nvidia re-engineered the CUDA to gain significant IPC performance improvements.

 

[CuriousTomCat]

Well it's the same as the Amd loyalists saying that it doesn't matter if Amd aren't competitive at the high end as long as they are priced fairly.

I'm an AMD loyalist and I'm looking forward to buying a new Navi card with my budget of approx £220. I'm expecting performance comparable to a GTX 1660 for that.

People with a similar budget to mine make up over 70% of the market, so why should it matter to me as a user if AMD aren't "competitive at the high end"?

 

[LePhuronn]

Not only that, but they needed to use a 7nm node to get there and purportedly make no profit on each one sold. Worse stillis the insnane pwoer concumption despite using 7nm and supposedly efficient HBM2.

You do know Radeon VII is just a PR stunt, yeah? Pushing a chip past its design parameters and purpose to get a marketing win? All bets are off when you fudge and kludge a product to do something it wasn't intended to do, and by extension any usefulness as a reference point is just zero.

If (when) Navi turns out to be a power hog and woefully inefficient, then lambast AMD and 7nm for being rubbish.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

If we're going down the software side from a gamers point of view what does AMD offer unique? Nvidia have gsync (Only relevant if you've got a gsync monitor) and ray tracing.

AMD's freesync is available for Nvidia so it's no longer a USP

They don't only sell to gamers and having open standards such as Freesync and better Vulkan performance are still good examples.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

You're cherry picking circumstances when the context is at launch.

The 580 launch for example was a rebrand of the 480 bringing a higher price point to the same performance of which we'd already seen before with the 390X rebrand.

Vega 56 at launch was like 1080 money too, while coming in late.

Why is context at launch and not simply 'now'? But if we're talking actual launch prices, you've also got to factor in that AMDs cards popularity in mining pushed up the prices massively. Vega 56 was meant to launch at $399, which is $100 less than a 1080 and it'd eventually near enough match it, especially once tinkered with. Mining may have pushed those prices up beyond the SRP but you can't really blame AMD for that. That's the GPU market of the era.

Anyway at launch 480 was $229 launch compared to the 1060 6gb $249, 470 was $179 compared to a 1060 3gb at $199. You got a better price, fine wine and more VRAM.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

Parity with a second tier product while coming in later is nothing to get excited about.

Agree or disagree?

Excited, maybe not. But is it a more reliable card with less chance of an RMA? Is it going to offer better performance at 4k in 2-3 years? I'd gamble some strong fine wine effect with improved drivers, VRAM running out, game optimisation for greater bandwidth.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

Why is context at launch and not simply 'now'? But if we're talking actual launch prices, you've also got to factor in that AMDs cards popularity in mining pushed up the prices massively. Vega 56 was meant to launch at $399, which is $100 less than a 1080 and it'd eventually near enough match it, especially once tinkered with. Mining may have pushed those prices up beyond the SRP but you can't really blame AMD for that. That's the GPU market of the era.

Anyway at launch 480 was $229 launch compared to the 1060 6gb $249, 470 was $179 compared to a 1060 3gb at $199. You got a better price, fine wine and more VRAM.

The fine wine thing was debunked 480/580 etc (check out Hardware Unboxed video), Do you know why the 570/580/590 and V56 (V56 prob makes a loss and polaris not much profit I bet)are so cheap and much more competitive. Competition the prices of thouse cards dropped hard when the 1660ti/1660 got released.

I'm still waiting 2 years later for a alternative to my 1080ti at the same or similar price point (£600-£800) and the best AMD almost 2 years later was the VII, same price , smaller process, more power! Not Stella competition, so while I hate that nvidia jacked up the price of the 2080ti I don't blame them as there a business after all.

Competition has proved time and time again to improve products and prices, no weak completion leads to not weak products and bad pricing.

Lots of people like me with 1080's 1080ti's etc will prob have to wait till 2020/2021 for a upgrade path at the same/similar price when Xe hits and hopefully brings some competition

ps the Vega launch prices of $399/499 where BS as you know with the whole launch day rebate BS.

TLDR: AMD need to really up there game if they want to make a profit and take back some market share with there GPU's, they need a Ryzen but for there GPU's and Navi is unlikely to be it.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

The fine wine thing was debunked 480/580 etc (check out Hardware Unboxed video), Do you know why the 570/580/590 and V56 (V56 prob makes a loss and polaris not much profit I bet)are so cheap and much more competitive. Competition the prices of thouse cards dropped hard when the 1660ti/1660 got released.

I'm still waiting 2 years later for a alternative to my 1080ti at the same or similar price point (£600-£800) and the best AMD almost 2 years later was the VII, same price , smaller process, more power! Not Stella competition, so while I hate that nvidia jacked up the price of the 2080ti I don't blame them as there a business after all.

Competition has proved time and time again to improve products and prices, no weak completion leads to not weak products and bad pricing.

Lots of people like me with 1080's 1080ti's etc will prob have to wait till 2020/2021 for a upgrade path at the same/similar price when Xe hits and hopefully brings some competition

ps the Vega launch prices of $399/499 where BS as you know with the whole launch day rebate BS.

TLDR: AMD need to really up there game if they want to make a profit and take back some market share with there GPU's, they need a Ryzen but for there GPU's and Navi is unlikely to be it.

It hasn't though, fine wine is a thing where AMD cards improve over time. Hardware Unboxed merely attribute it to drivers/VRAM capacity. The 580/570 have caught and got beyond the 1060 6gb/3gb cards. The Vega56 has gone from 1070 levels to pretty much 1080 levels.

570/580 dropped in price from October about 6-7 months before the 1660 cards hit. The Vega 56 first hit £300 on Black Friday last year well before the 2060 release. But as it is the Vega 56 is at 1660ti price, while competing with the more expensive 2060. The 570 and Vega 56 are the best value cards in the UK without question.

As for the 1080ti, no neither AMD or Nvidia give you a value upgrade but then again you are enjoying a 1080ti so you can't moan too much or suffer much performance lag.

 

[Martini1991]

Fine wine is so cringeworthy.

 

[BigBANGtheory]

The 570 and Vega 56 are the best value cards in the UK without question.

I fail to see how a 570 or Vega 56 represents good value for 4k gaming, there's your question.

I have zero interest in AMD disrupting the market for the 1080p and 1440p resolutions, couldn't give a damn if they offered GTX 1080-like performance for £200. Its the next tier, the 4k we need shaking up and let the performance filter down to lower resolutions.