The Cryptolambo had gone to the moon... Time for Cryptolambo 2!!!

Soldato
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16 Jun 2005
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In the middle
Yeah funny that. All depends on the judge on the day. I suppose the police involved could just not bother turning up.
That would be a win but also galling that they could put you through so much hassle for nothing.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
21 Feb 2006
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28,639
It seems to me we have an angry copper or two who, more often than not, get away with bullying because they can as no one has the time or inclination to deal with it. The downside for them is this time they have ****ed up and have picked our own @kindai who is in a position and has the inclination to put a stop to them and show them, with the use of the law, who actually has the power this time.

I am not surprised 'evidence' has gone missing, it often does when there is none and let's hope that a copper or two are fearing a proper slap for this. If you win I would consider going large in the media too, getting the coppers names out there and their force for the full on "you got learned".

HAVE ITTTTTTTT :cry:
 
Associate
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3 Jun 2005
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The South
If you win I would consider going large in the media too, getting the coppers names out there and their force for the full on "you got learned".

HAVE ITTTTTTTT :cry:
Kind of agree but then is it worth the possible future arse ache because it would only be a matter of time before you get pulled over again - i guess that's where hidden dashcams would be handy.
 
Soldato
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Britain
Haha.

So I can share some more details now as ive been informed that all the documents have been organized by a court lawyer from both sides and are ready for a judge to review.

Basically to review a Section 59 it has to fall under 3 reasons, unlawfulness, irrationality and unfairness.

For the point of my claim I filed under unlawfulness, in that the Section 59 was unlawfully issued because the standards to issue it were not met. Obviously the police backed their own and for all intents and purposes refused to speak to me except to review BWV of after they stopped me.

They refused to provide any BWV or Car footage of the alleged incident (later claiming it doesnt exist) and then eventually sent some mute video of where they pulled up to my car at a set of lights. A second BWV of another officer has also mysteriously disappeared. All this has been highlighted to the court.

So it then comes down to the statement of 1 officer (the others refused to give statements), whos evidence has all gone missing despite my immediate request to have it preserved, vs my statement and representations.

After months of to-and-fro they also changed their tune from "inconsiderate driving" to try and also add in "careless driving". This seemed to happen when the legal department got involved, no doubt as they know inconsiderate driving has a well defined standard as laid out in Dilks v Bowman-Shaw [1981] RTR 4 DC. In cases of inconsiderate driving, there must be evidence that some other user of the road or public place was actually inconvenienced.

Accordingly I have also pointed out the change to the court and asked them to review if that is appropriate for the police to do.

Ultimately it comes down to the following points that the judge will review and decide on:

1) Did my driving cause actual inconvenience (the legal meaning of it, not what you will think) to anyone and can that be demonstrated.
2) Is that driving causing, or likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public.
3) If 1 is found in my favor, the judge will also have to decide if 3 months down the line if it is appropriate for the police to change it to a broader charge of "contravening section 3 of the RTA" including careless driving.
4) If the judge Agrees with me on 1 but the police on 3 then they will also need to consider was my driving careless.

So basically theres a matrix of outcomes.

If I win 2 then I win my case regardless of the others.
If I win 1 then lose 2, 3 needs to be considered.
If I win 1, lose 2, lose 3, then 4 will decide the winner.
But if I win 1, lose 2 and win 3 then I win also.


Ultimately, it could go either way as a review gets very specific. In my mind and heart I know I did nothing wrong or dangerous, and hope the judge agrees with me. However if I lose then it just means gotta be on good behavior for another 7 months, not that I've changed my driving at all following this so its a case of "yea whatever".

I have also represented myself in all this (insert fool of a client quote here), and have picked up a huge amount of knowledge by doing so, so in that regard has been time well spent. Have also picked up a dash cam system I can install stealth on the car should anything further happen.
You've still conveniently failed to note that any of 1 to 4 doesn't have to be at the time of the stop. It could have been 3 hours before, by a member of the public in another car park 5 miles down the road.
 
Sgarrista
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Bromsgrove
You've still conveniently failed to note that any of 1 to 4 doesn't have to be at the time of the stop. It could have been 3 hours before, by a member of the public in another car park 5 miles down the road.

Not anymore in my case, as part of the disclosure and candor the exact incident, time, and location was entered into submissions to the court from both sides. But yes, in theory a S59 can potentially be much broader.
 
OcUK Staff
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17 Oct 2002
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36,097
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OcUK HQ
Not anymore in my case, as part of the disclosure and candor the exact incident, time, and location was entered into submissions to the court from both sides. But yes, in theory a S59 can potentially be much broader.

S59 has its place, but in your case they could give you an S59 for just starting your car up based on how broadly it can be used.

Yet a load of youths can legally go and set off a load of fireworks any day/night of the year upto 11pm, sure the latter is far more distressing and alarming to the public, yet it is legal?
Fair to say you were targeted because you have a nice car and said police were on a power trip / jealousy rage, I truly hope you win hands down, which you should do and as Housey says then go to the press, but as others have said that could end up painting a target on your car for further harassment.
 
Sgarrista
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Bromsgrove
S59 has its place, but in your case they could give you an S59 for just starting your car up based on how broadly it can be used.

Yet a load of youths can legally go and set off a load of fireworks any day/night of the year upto 11pm, sure the latter is far more distressing and alarming to the public, yet it is legal?
Fair to say you were targeted because you have a nice car and said police were on a power trip / jealousy rage, I truly hope you win hands down, which you should do and as Housey says then go to the press, but as others have said that could end up painting a target on your car for further harassment.

Absolutely. Its just some idiot officer with an axe to grind.

Lets see what the court comes back with, and take it from there.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
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5,585
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Leicestershire
It’s amazing how a cop car can have more than one copper in it and them not see anything, surely if you’re following someone both of you have your eyes on that car, for them to turn around and not give evidence suggests that someone’s just got an axe to grind or whatever power trip..
 
Sgarrista
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Bromsgrove
Well its that time of year again when I have to spend hours of time to see who will insure the car without some ridiculous premium and probably end up using Admiral anyway.

Current prices obtained:

Admiral: £1362
Performance Direct: £1169
Grove and Dean Private Client: £1190
 
Associate
Joined
19 Dec 2002
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1,594
be careful son had this problem on a car he purchased got stopped and was told car was subject to s59. caused no end of hassle due to previous owner, older 5 series , he got fed up in the end and sold it to friends in france just to stop problems.
 
Don
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7 Aug 2003
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43,192
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Aberdeenshire
Was going to chip in at the time, but forgot - I suspect the real reason the videos don’t have sound is less about the exhaust noise and actually more what the officers would have been saying about you. Especially when they subsequently refused to give statements.
 
Sgarrista
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Bromsgrove
Was going to chip in at the time, but forgot - I suspect the real reason the videos don’t have sound is less about the exhaust noise and actually more what the officers would have been saying about you. Especially when they subsequently refused to give statements.

Oh yep.
 
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