Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (March Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 400 43.3%
  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 523 56.7%

  • Total voters
    923
  • Poll closed .
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Seems like the thread has gone a bit down hill and even as it's just restarted we have people trying to play games about who has the worst attitude. I'll be honest, I think in does but they also generally have the better arguments.

Still for me personally I feel voting in is the sensible choice if you short mindedly looked at the current situation, slapped your face and said this is all that matters but looking into the future and how the EU is structured, how bad they was at managing the migration crisis, how little they've accomplished on the world scene, how they've failed to protect there own citizens / borders from being over run and also the sex attacks / violence that gets new incidents every day. There throw the locals to the dogs attitude for money is like any morally shrill bankers dream but of course we're in the middle of a financial crisis, the EU can't be blamed for all the failures and we've been in it for 40 years and we're not dropping away. I try to look at things from both sides (I fear few do on this forum) but my honest answer is I'm considering voting out. If it were my decision that decided the entire fate of britain then I'd vote in but I'd rather just use my vote to send a message that we're not that big on the EU and it'd only go belly up if half the other voters felt the same anyway so it's not like my single vote matters that much in the grand scale.

You need look no further than Austria and Hungary already ignoring EU law to see that it can't enforce it's own rules, look no further than the referendum to see how self interest reared it's head and hungary walked away to laugh at us in there own parliament days later, look no further than david camerons negotiatons to see how inflexible the EU was on any policy. I'm not saying the EU is terrible, it's just structured terribly and I feel a ship with 28 captains doesn't make sense. I'm sure it'll work either way and I don't feel either side is wrong but damn the EU could be so much better if there was just a bit more flexibility.
 
At least MEPs are elected using PR. You could argue that is more democratic than general elections.

There are advantages of PR it's true, but there are also disadvantages e.g. issues as accountability and transparency. You'd never get unpopular but powerful politicians like Michael Portillo or Ed Balls out of Parliament if we had PR.
 
At least MEPs are elected using PR. You could argue that is more democratic than general elections.

MEPs just rubber stamp legislation and the numbers of the population represented by MEPs varies drastically across EU countries - 70k per MEP in Luxembourg, 800k per MEP in the UK...

The EU is run by bureaucrats, being a member of it reduces our ability to have a say in how our country is run.
 
Stay in.

It's not even worth considering the pros and cons of it. We're barely out of recession and this would be too expensive even if there was a good case for it. It's that simple.

Not massively surprised to see OcUK polls coming out in favour of leaving. The majority of people on this forum seem to be in favour of all sorts of dopey stuff like this.
 
Stay in.

It's not even worth considering the pros and cons of it. We're barely out of recession and this would be too expensive even if there was a good case for it. It's that simple.

Not massively surprised to see OcUK polls coming out in favour of leaving. The majority of people on this forum seem to be in favour of all sorts of dopey stuff like this.
I never understood this argument, one minute we're going into the 'complete unknown' then the next minute we know it's too expensive? Where's the costings for this?

I'm not disagreeing as I feel similar in that it's a bad time to do it during a recession but lets be honest, we do have 2 years to renegotiate our policy with the EU (not that the uncercainty would help business investment as that will go down anyway) but unless you know the numbers then we can't mess around argument wise and support the idea it's too expensive but have the in voters cry every time we say it might not be that bad financially. I think we'd need to see some numbers before we guarantee its 'too' expensive.

Like I said though, as a general statement I can agree with you but as a blanket statement it's just knee jerk.
 
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There are advantages of PR it's true, but there are also disadvantages e.g. issues as accountability and transparency. You'd never get unpopular but powerful politicians like Michael Portillo or Ed Balls out of Parliament if we had PR.

Surely they wouldn't be unpopular if we had PR? Indeed, you'd be able to properly quantify their support.

MEPs just rubber stamp legislation and the numbers of the population represented by MEPs varies drastically across EU countries - 70k per MEP in Luxembourg, 800k per MEP in the UK...

The EU is run by bureaucrats, being a member of it reduces our ability to have a say in how our country is run.

MEPs are there to debate and vote on laws just like MPs are. They are no more run by bureaucrats than the UK is run by the civil service.
 

If we had a strong set of MEPs who built coalitions with other European parties, then we're not a small voice, we just need to work to build support in Europe. And many UK voters are not alone in many of the concerns around sovereignty and immigration - other Europeans also share this, so building that support to change Europe could be done if we decided that we're going to make the most of our position.
 
These laws aren't made by faceless people, they are voted by the European Parliament, who we send MEPs to. Well, unless you voted for a UKIP MEP who don't engage or often even attend the European Parliament. If you want to have a say in EU law, stop voting for people who don't turn up.

The Germans have huge power in Europe because they engage with Europe. Standing on the sidelines is why our voice is not as loud as the second largest economy in Europe should be.


Where did you hear all that?

As far as I can tell the MEPs we\other people in the EU vote in then go on to make bigger groups.
So who ever has the largest group wins no matter what the UK says.

From the other thread
Since records began in 1996, the UK has not managed to prevent a single proposal placed in front of the Council of Ministers from becoming European law. This amounts to 55 measures that the UK opposed that have since become British law. Since 1973 the UK’s voting power in the Council of Ministers has decreased from 17% to 8%, in the European Parliament it has decreased from 20% to 9.5% and in the European Commission it has decreased from 15% to 4%. The UK has about 12% of the EU's population, it provides only 5% of the EU's staff and the situation is set to get worse. More than four in 10 British officials will be enjoying their retirement by 2020 and, based on the number of applicants in recent years, most of them will not be replaced (junior roles have only a 1.2% UK entrance rate). Over the last European Parliamentary term (2009-14),a majority of British MEPs(across UK party lines) opposed 576 motions out of a total 1,936 that were put before the European Parliament .Of those 576 motions, 485 were nonetheless approved by the rest of the Parliament despite the opposition of a majority of British MEPs. This is a failure rate of 84%. This rises to 89% in Economic & Monetary affairs & 98% loss in Budget votes. We are the 2nd worst represented in the EU parliament after France with 839,194 inhabitants per MEP (Lux 76,667 per MEP, Ireland 350,750, Italy 816,000). There is no "British Influence".
 
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Surely they wouldn't be unpopular if we had PR? Indeed, you'd be able to properly quantify their support.

Not sure what you mean by this. Ed Balls would still be Ed Balls, under PR he'd be at the top of Labour's list of election candidates, so would be assured of a seat with a low percentage of the vote for Labour.
 
Where did you hear all that?

As far as I can tell the MEPs we\other people in the EU vote in then go on to make bigger groups.
So who ever has the largest group wins no matter what the UK says.

That's not different to any other coalition. Your're also assuming that we're not part of that bigger group and that the group doesn't have the same priorities that we'd like.

As for UKIP's attendance record, I'll quote the DM. Don't worry, the irony isn't lost on me.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...meron-warns-UK-needs-politicians-turn-up.html
 
was IN but now strongly leaning towards out.

the deal seems pretty weak and with greece saying they'll block it unless we/everyone takes more Syrians then it's likely to be thrown out or we'll have to make the exact move that we didnt want to and take more migrants.
 
Where did you hear all that?

As far as I can tell the MEPs we\other people in the EU vote in then go on to make bigger groups.
So who ever has the largest group wins no matter what the UK says.

Not quite - they do form groups which are something like our political parties. To pass legislation you need >50% of the vote in the EP, the largest group has something like 30% of the MEPs in the EP, so they need other groups to vote with them to pass legislation. It's true that there are no UK MEPs in the European People's Party, which is the largest group.
 
Surely they wouldn't be unpopular if we had PR? Indeed, you'd be able to properly quantify their support.



MEPs are there to debate and vote on laws just like MPs are. They are no more run by bureaucrats than the UK is run by the civil service.
At least the civil service is generally backing one side and not 28 different sides though. Democratic doesn't mean much when they are not accountable and the sad state of affairs with the EU is that they simply create a situation where politicans are out of control. It's like if 6 people from the UK joined a protest in germany and all the germans felt it should be a violent protest instead and became violent, you can't really blame the brits for the german actions and they're accountable for there own actions but they have 0 control of the actual outcome just because they are outnumbered.

Lets try this, next time we get parliament set up lets have 28 different political parties with proportional representation and see how many laws get passed. The bickering and self interest would kill it.
 
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That's not different to any other coalition. Your're also assuming that we're not part of that bigger group and that the group doesn't have the same priorities that we'd like.

Read my edited post above.

As for UKIP's attendance record, I'll quote the DM. Don't worry, the irony isn't lost on me.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...meron-warns-UK-needs-politicians-turn-up.html

Already been posted 100s of times and As the reason given by NF has been posted as much.
Got anything new to bring to the table?
 
Have been in the OUT camp all the way along and no amount of government-sponsored hysteria or open letters from businessmen (with hidden government connections or ministerial spouses) will persuade me from that.

There are many reasons I feel this way, but the simplest is the matter of sovreignity: this country is no longer in control of all its affairs and what control we do have will only diminish further - it's what the EU was set up to do. Don't give me all that crap about it being a Common Market - that's just window dressing to hide the real purpose of those that came up with this neo-Soviet concept.
 
MEPs are there to debate and vote on laws just like MPs are. They are no more run by bureaucrats than the UK is run by the civil service.

I said the EU is run by bureaucrats...

MEPs are not just like MPs, MPs propose legislation and vote on it, MEPs merely provide the rubber stamp...

MPs are appointed to ministerial posts and oversee govt departments, MEPs aren't

EU legislation is proposed by unelected bureaucrats, EU departments are headed by unelected bureaucrats...
 
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