Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

[estebanrey]

Exactly, the EU creates and enforces the level playing field and stops the rush to the bottom by Govt's / businesses by stripping workers rights/business practices to make their country unfairly cheaper.

Level playing field? The minimum wage laws are vastly different across the EU, we get different amount of holidays, unfair dismissal laws are all different etc.

Having a handful of directives that at best do no more than act as an insurance policy against exploitation doesn't mean there is a level playing field across the EU for workers. If there was, we wouldn't see large amounts of Eastern Europeans coming here to do jobs they would be over-qualified for in their home countries.

 

[PlacidCasual]

I inadvisedly and against my wishes got involved in a referendum discussion with some work colleagues last night, both were stay voters.

The discussion was good spirited and ultimately fruitless because we had different World outlooks which weren't going to be changed.

Both were young, early thirties, married, degree educated, professionals.

We talked about soveriegnty and a comment one made and the other wholeheartedly endorsed was they do not trust UK voters and think they are ill informed. They thought having unelected bureaucrats, scientits and corporate lobbyists make the laws largely without reference to the electorate was preferable and thought referendums even on major issues were an inconvenience. They didn't go quite so far as to say they didn't believe in Universal Suffrage but certainly thought it shoud be qualified. I mercilessly lampooned this as they did my arguments but I was left feeling a little sad they were so sanguine about the right of common voters to have some say in their own future.

I haven't decided if this is a generational divide or an educated middle class liberal disdain for people not like them.

 

[Freakbro]

Can you cite me 5 examples of workers' rights that we only have due to the EU?

Off the top of my head

The Working Time Directive

Paternity Pay and SPL

Right to time off from work for urgent family reasons

Equal employment rights for part-time, fixed term and agency workers

TUPE

Then you have many improvements in exisiting legislation, like

Improved access to paid annual holidays and enforcing companies to ensure employees have to take them

Improved health and safety legislation

Improved anti-discrimination to cover age, religion and sexual orientation

 

[glenimp617]

I inadvisedly and against my wishes got involved in a referendum discussion with some work colleagues last night, both were stay voters.

The discussion was good spirited and ultimately fruitless because we had different World outlooks which weren't going to be changed.

Both were young, early thirties, married, degree educated, professionals.

We talked about soveriegnty and a comment one made and the other wholeheartedly endorsed was they do not trust UK voters and think they are ill informed. They thought having unelected bureaucrats, scientits and corporate lobbyists make the laws largely without reference to the electorate was preferable and thought referendums even on major issues were an inconvenience. They didn't go quite so far as to say they didn't believe in Universal Suffrage but certainly thought it shoud be qualified. I mercilessly lampooned this as they did my arguments but I was left feeling a little sad they were so sanguine about the right of common voters to have some say in their own future.

I haven't decided if this is a generational divide or an educated middle class liberal disdain for people not like them.

The issue is with freedom of information and general intelligence to absorb, process and understand said information. Unfortunately, too high a proportion are either unable or unwilling. That leaves a very small minority. What's the solution? as stated above, remove choice. I'm not saying I agree, but I do understand.

Obviously the solution is better information and transparency but can't honestly see it happening because of the above.

Talk about swings and roundabouts!

The EU referendum was supposed to be a balanced, unbiased, non-political vote.....it's anything of the sort (and in cases, resorted to petty name calling and scare mongering)

 

[Freakbro]

Level playing field? The minimum wage laws are vastly different across the EU,

Well of course it is as the cost of living is vastly different across the EU

 

[Roar87]

Is it racism, or a reflection of how BAME people are far less likely to be registered to vote than white people? Why's it unreasonable to try and target those people if the general campaigns aren't resulting in close to uniform registration numbers across all groups of people? If a low percentage of young people are registered, they should be targeted. If a low percentage of poor white people are registered, they should be targeted. Etc. Crying about people trying to get people engaged with democracy is lol.

Yeah, it's racism mate. Replace that white guy with a black guy and the Asian woman with a white woman and tell me it'd be at all acceptable. It's laughable that you're defending it.

 

[glenimp617]

Even now I'm still undecided as to which way to vote

I simply do not have enough accurate and correctly verified information on which to base an opinion. I'm not voting on something I don't fully understand. To do so, will be adding an element of emotional and personal bias into the equation.

 

[John40]

Net migration for 2015 was 333,000, but no need to worry as all our public services are not stretched to the limit already.

The Guardian has the headline: UK immigration increased by only 20,000 in 2015, official figures confirm. So now if it goes up yet again but only by 20,000 according to the Guardian that's a very good thing.

 

[platypus]

Can you cite me 5 examples of workers' rights that we only have due to the EU?

WTD, Paternity pay and leave, Tupe, better holiday arrangements, health and safety legislation. Thats 5, I could sit and think about it and name more.

It's still not enough mind, eg Paternity pay is awful, 2 weeks leave is terrible, and SPL has existed in Sweden for example since 1974 (and they get full salary for 20 weeks iirc compared to the statutory here). A lot more can be done, there just doesn't seem to be much interest in doing so by the UK government.

 

[Danthus]

It has only gone up by 20,000.

See what I did there?

 

[No1newts]

Where was the migration from? Was it EU based? Was it people coming in to employment?

 

[Chris Wilson]

Even now I'm still undecided as to which way to vote

I simply do not have enough accurate and correctly verified information on which to base an opinion. I'm not voting on something I don't fully understand. To do so, will be adding an element of emotional and personal bias into the equation.

Nothing wrong with a vote on that basis, most of life's decisions are made on the basis of empirical judgement, so use your vote!

 

[platypus]

Net migration for 2015 was 333,000, but no need to worry as all our public services are not stretched to the limit already.

Thats a useless statistic in the context with which you've given it; ie none.

How many of those people:

- Came with a job
- Came without a job
- Have come to use services
- Have come to pay tax
- Have contributed to the tax system more than they have taken out in services
- Have received benefits
- Have not receive benefits
- etc.

?

 

[glenimp617]

My company has seen a 50% rise in profits over the last three years. That is amazing for any company, let along a fairly new start-up.

I'm selling home made ice creams.

In the first year I didn't actually sell any, but year two I did sell one, and the following year I sold two (the second sale had to be partially refunded as they said it tasted horrible).

Sales figures show an excellent upward trend which looks to continue into year four with estimated sales of three.

Mercedez Benz saw US year on year sales increase by 2.6%. My linked-in profile states that I have successfully out paced them by a huge margin!

 

[Chris Wilson]

Off the top of my head

The Working Time Directive

Paternity Pay and SPL

Right to time off from work for urgent family reasons

Equal employment rights for part-time, fixed term and agency workers

TUPE

Then you have many improvements in exisiting legislation, like

Improved access to paid annual holidays and enforcing companies to ensure employees have to take them

Improved health and safety legislation

Improved anti-discrimination to cover age, religion and sexual orientation

Incredible you can cite all that "off the top of your head"!

I presume it's stuff you use in your work? Impressive.


But how much of this stuff makes the UK more competitive on a global stage?

 

[Roar87]

Thats a useless statistic in the context with which you've given it; ie none.

How many of those people:

- Came with a job
- Came without a job
- Have come to use services
- Have come to pay tax
- Have contributed to the tax system more than they have taken out in services
- Have received benefits
- Have not receive benefits
- etc.

?

We don't know because the government won't release those statistics as it would fuel anti-EU and anti-immigration feeling

 

[scorza]

Incredible you can cite all that "off the top of your head"!

I presume it's stuff you use in your work? Impressive.


But how much of this stuff makes the UK more competitive on a global stage?

Can't you read? he runs many, many businesses. A regular Lord Sir Alan is our Freakbro.

 

[Freakbro]

Incredible you can cite all that "off the top of your head"!

I presume it's stuff you use in your work? Impressive.

Well yes, one of the things I do is run 5 payrolls (one of which has 50+ employees) so I need to know about employment legislation....not that impressive really

But how much of this stuff makes the UK more competitive on a global stage?

So you are advocating a chinese style stripping of workers rights just so we can be more globally competitive.....which goes hand in hand with your liking of the chinese one child policy as well...

I prefer living in a liberal society that protects the rights of people, if you want to live in a totalitarian state, just move to an existing one.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Where was the migration from? Was it EU based? Was it people coming in to employment?

More than half of it was non EU migration.

Which we have total control over. Yet it was still higher than the 'target'.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Can't you read? he runs many, many businesses. A regular Lord Sir Alan is our Freakbro.

Sorry, my reading standard is appalling, I have been told I am ill educated and I should be silent and vote-less. To comment on his possible employment would be most impertinent and improper.


But I am quietly building up a mental picture, and it's not of a titled successful Jewish billionaire....